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da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nsho9 | f1nvyvs | 1,569,625,103 | 1,569,627,851 | 3 | 5 | It's worth looking into male socialization. Everyone knows men typically act more tough and macho, but statistically feel pain more than women and are more emotional too. Basically, take a girl, remove all the subservient and communication-building female socialization, give her a ton of power, and then add a fuck ton of responsibility, bullying, and piss poor guidance and you get a more typically masculine character, | I will take a somewhat dissenting opinion here, based on a quick read of what others have said. Here are some things I have observed not only in myself, but in my siblings, own children, nieces, nephews, and other extended family. Lest someone feel compelled to try to rebut, these are my own observations. I am making no claim that this applies to all men everywhere. If the bullet items below help /u/Carolineskj gain some insight, that's all I'm going for. (I'll refer to adolescent males and men as just "men" for brevity, and pre-adolescent males as "boys", likewise for "women" and "girls", just as a convenient shorthand and acknowledging that teenagers really aren't women and men.) Thus, in no particular order: - The boys in my life have been different from the girls in my life from an early age, even before they learned to talk, but they really diverge during adolescence. - The men generally take longer to process emotions in general and negative emotions in particular than do the women. We are talking several minutes to hours versus seconds. - Related to this, the men in particular seem to experience more clearly defined emotions that last longer (and hence take longer to pass). There are clear exceptions to this. - The men and boys generally care less about the actions of others unless they perceive them to be unfair or threatening. It might be more accurate to say they don't seem to perceive the actions of others much at all. - The men in my life generally talk less and tend to talk more about concepts, while the women in my life talk a great deal more and generally about the people in their lives. - I have noticed that if a man and a woman are talking and the subject turns to people, more often than not, the man is just being a polite listener. There are exceptions, of course. - Emotional expression in boys is tolerated far less than it is among girls, *especially* by girls and women. - The men in my life tend to think about a narrow range of subjects deeply, where the women tend to think about a broader range of subjects. - Most of the men in my life do much better with being alone than the women, but I can think of several exceptions. - Most of the men in my life spend far less time thinking about their feelings toward the women in their lives than fiction written by women would suggest. - The men tend to partition aspects of their lives off more than the women do. For example, the men in my life are far less likely to discuss friends and family around coworkers. To reiterate, these are my own observations about a small set of people in a particular culture. Whether or not this can be generalized, I can't say. | 0 | 2,748 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvyvs | f1nttn6 | 1,569,627,851 | 1,569,626,157 | 5 | 3 | I will take a somewhat dissenting opinion here, based on a quick read of what others have said. Here are some things I have observed not only in myself, but in my siblings, own children, nieces, nephews, and other extended family. Lest someone feel compelled to try to rebut, these are my own observations. I am making no claim that this applies to all men everywhere. If the bullet items below help /u/Carolineskj gain some insight, that's all I'm going for. (I'll refer to adolescent males and men as just "men" for brevity, and pre-adolescent males as "boys", likewise for "women" and "girls", just as a convenient shorthand and acknowledging that teenagers really aren't women and men.) Thus, in no particular order: - The boys in my life have been different from the girls in my life from an early age, even before they learned to talk, but they really diverge during adolescence. - The men generally take longer to process emotions in general and negative emotions in particular than do the women. We are talking several minutes to hours versus seconds. - Related to this, the men in particular seem to experience more clearly defined emotions that last longer (and hence take longer to pass). There are clear exceptions to this. - The men and boys generally care less about the actions of others unless they perceive them to be unfair or threatening. It might be more accurate to say they don't seem to perceive the actions of others much at all. - The men in my life generally talk less and tend to talk more about concepts, while the women in my life talk a great deal more and generally about the people in their lives. - I have noticed that if a man and a woman are talking and the subject turns to people, more often than not, the man is just being a polite listener. There are exceptions, of course. - Emotional expression in boys is tolerated far less than it is among girls, *especially* by girls and women. - The men in my life tend to think about a narrow range of subjects deeply, where the women tend to think about a broader range of subjects. - Most of the men in my life do much better with being alone than the women, but I can think of several exceptions. - Most of the men in my life spend far less time thinking about their feelings toward the women in their lives than fiction written by women would suggest. - The men tend to partition aspects of their lives off more than the women do. For example, the men in my life are far less likely to discuss friends and family around coworkers. To reiterate, these are my own observations about a small set of people in a particular culture. Whether or not this can be generalized, I can't say. | I think you may have spoken to the emotions of your character too directly. Anger or disgust can be shown and written directly, but I think a lot of other emotions need to be written more indirectly and certainly not spoken of for the stereotypical masculine character. If you distance yourself in your narration and include more description of action being taken that might help. | 1 | 1,694 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvyvs | f1nvnia | 1,569,627,851 | 1,569,627,610 | 5 | 3 | I will take a somewhat dissenting opinion here, based on a quick read of what others have said. Here are some things I have observed not only in myself, but in my siblings, own children, nieces, nephews, and other extended family. Lest someone feel compelled to try to rebut, these are my own observations. I am making no claim that this applies to all men everywhere. If the bullet items below help /u/Carolineskj gain some insight, that's all I'm going for. (I'll refer to adolescent males and men as just "men" for brevity, and pre-adolescent males as "boys", likewise for "women" and "girls", just as a convenient shorthand and acknowledging that teenagers really aren't women and men.) Thus, in no particular order: - The boys in my life have been different from the girls in my life from an early age, even before they learned to talk, but they really diverge during adolescence. - The men generally take longer to process emotions in general and negative emotions in particular than do the women. We are talking several minutes to hours versus seconds. - Related to this, the men in particular seem to experience more clearly defined emotions that last longer (and hence take longer to pass). There are clear exceptions to this. - The men and boys generally care less about the actions of others unless they perceive them to be unfair or threatening. It might be more accurate to say they don't seem to perceive the actions of others much at all. - The men in my life generally talk less and tend to talk more about concepts, while the women in my life talk a great deal more and generally about the people in their lives. - I have noticed that if a man and a woman are talking and the subject turns to people, more often than not, the man is just being a polite listener. There are exceptions, of course. - Emotional expression in boys is tolerated far less than it is among girls, *especially* by girls and women. - The men in my life tend to think about a narrow range of subjects deeply, where the women tend to think about a broader range of subjects. - Most of the men in my life do much better with being alone than the women, but I can think of several exceptions. - Most of the men in my life spend far less time thinking about their feelings toward the women in their lives than fiction written by women would suggest. - The men tend to partition aspects of their lives off more than the women do. For example, the men in my life are far less likely to discuss friends and family around coworkers. To reiterate, these are my own observations about a small set of people in a particular culture. Whether or not this can be generalized, I can't say. | Nothing wrong with making a man emotional. Go for it. | 1 | 241 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvyvs | f1ntwa9 | 1,569,627,851 | 1,569,626,216 | 5 | 2 | I will take a somewhat dissenting opinion here, based on a quick read of what others have said. Here are some things I have observed not only in myself, but in my siblings, own children, nieces, nephews, and other extended family. Lest someone feel compelled to try to rebut, these are my own observations. I am making no claim that this applies to all men everywhere. If the bullet items below help /u/Carolineskj gain some insight, that's all I'm going for. (I'll refer to adolescent males and men as just "men" for brevity, and pre-adolescent males as "boys", likewise for "women" and "girls", just as a convenient shorthand and acknowledging that teenagers really aren't women and men.) Thus, in no particular order: - The boys in my life have been different from the girls in my life from an early age, even before they learned to talk, but they really diverge during adolescence. - The men generally take longer to process emotions in general and negative emotions in particular than do the women. We are talking several minutes to hours versus seconds. - Related to this, the men in particular seem to experience more clearly defined emotions that last longer (and hence take longer to pass). There are clear exceptions to this. - The men and boys generally care less about the actions of others unless they perceive them to be unfair or threatening. It might be more accurate to say they don't seem to perceive the actions of others much at all. - The men in my life generally talk less and tend to talk more about concepts, while the women in my life talk a great deal more and generally about the people in their lives. - I have noticed that if a man and a woman are talking and the subject turns to people, more often than not, the man is just being a polite listener. There are exceptions, of course. - Emotional expression in boys is tolerated far less than it is among girls, *especially* by girls and women. - The men in my life tend to think about a narrow range of subjects deeply, where the women tend to think about a broader range of subjects. - Most of the men in my life do much better with being alone than the women, but I can think of several exceptions. - Most of the men in my life spend far less time thinking about their feelings toward the women in their lives than fiction written by women would suggest. - The men tend to partition aspects of their lives off more than the women do. For example, the men in my life are far less likely to discuss friends and family around coworkers. To reiterate, these are my own observations about a small set of people in a particular culture. Whether or not this can be generalized, I can't say. | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | 1 | 1,635 | 2.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nlnrz | f1ni30d | 1,569,620,053 | 1,569,617,786 | 5 | 3 | Best take I ever heard on this is that imagine there is a problem like a car breaking down. A woman says to a man “why has the car broken down?” Man snaps and says “how should i know. Why do you always ask me impossible questions?” Now, the woman wasn’t actually expecting the man to tell her why the car had broken down, she wanted to talk about it - she wanted to connect with him, maybe share their worries and thoughts etc etc The man, however, thinks in terms of goals. “I am a man so I must fix this”. And when he can’t he gets angry as he looks unmanly. So my wife and I have a rule where when she asks me a question like that she has to start with “I wonder” - “I wonder why the car has broken down”. Then I don’t feel my entire masculinity is on the line and can say “I wonder too. Let’s go on a journey together to find out by looking at the repair manual.” Honestly, we are all just these simple creatures! | Men express anger and revulsion more openly, with fewer implications or passive aggression when slighted by another character. We make faster and bolder decisions, for better or worse. Exposition about our love related emotions are typically not shared with other people. | 1 | 2,267 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nlnrz | f1nj2ct | 1,569,620,053 | 1,569,618,418 | 5 | 3 | Best take I ever heard on this is that imagine there is a problem like a car breaking down. A woman says to a man “why has the car broken down?” Man snaps and says “how should i know. Why do you always ask me impossible questions?” Now, the woman wasn’t actually expecting the man to tell her why the car had broken down, she wanted to talk about it - she wanted to connect with him, maybe share their worries and thoughts etc etc The man, however, thinks in terms of goals. “I am a man so I must fix this”. And when he can’t he gets angry as he looks unmanly. So my wife and I have a rule where when she asks me a question like that she has to start with “I wonder” - “I wonder why the car has broken down”. Then I don’t feel my entire masculinity is on the line and can say “I wonder too. Let’s go on a journey together to find out by looking at the repair manual.” Honestly, we are all just these simple creatures! | I think tuning down the metaphors isn't a bad idea if you're trying to write an "average" man (but the question is, will people want to read about an average man) but you don't need to completely "unsoften" him just because he's a man. Men feel emotions just like anybody else. If your character is a soft and gentle guy, that's perfectly alright. If he's butch and macho that's a perfectly alright character as well. If he experiences emotions very strongly but doesn't communicate them that's a perfectly alright character. Go with the character, not the genitalia. And apropos: Don't mention the penis unless he is about to have sex or about to have it chopped off. | 1 | 1,635 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ni30d | f1nvto3 | 1,569,617,786 | 1,569,627,740 | 3 | 5 | Men express anger and revulsion more openly, with fewer implications or passive aggression when slighted by another character. We make faster and bolder decisions, for better or worse. Exposition about our love related emotions are typically not shared with other people. | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | 0 | 9,954 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvto3 | f1nj2ct | 1,569,627,740 | 1,569,618,418 | 5 | 3 | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | I think tuning down the metaphors isn't a bad idea if you're trying to write an "average" man (but the question is, will people want to read about an average man) but you don't need to completely "unsoften" him just because he's a man. Men feel emotions just like anybody else. If your character is a soft and gentle guy, that's perfectly alright. If he's butch and macho that's a perfectly alright character as well. If he experiences emotions very strongly but doesn't communicate them that's a perfectly alright character. Go with the character, not the genitalia. And apropos: Don't mention the penis unless he is about to have sex or about to have it chopped off. | 1 | 9,322 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvto3 | f1nsho9 | 1,569,627,740 | 1,569,625,103 | 5 | 3 | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | It's worth looking into male socialization. Everyone knows men typically act more tough and macho, but statistically feel pain more than women and are more emotional too. Basically, take a girl, remove all the subservient and communication-building female socialization, give her a ton of power, and then add a fuck ton of responsibility, bullying, and piss poor guidance and you get a more typically masculine character, | 1 | 2,637 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvto3 | f1nttn6 | 1,569,627,740 | 1,569,626,157 | 5 | 3 | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | I think you may have spoken to the emotions of your character too directly. Anger or disgust can be shown and written directly, but I think a lot of other emotions need to be written more indirectly and certainly not spoken of for the stereotypical masculine character. If you distance yourself in your narration and include more description of action being taken that might help. | 1 | 1,583 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvto3 | f1nvnia | 1,569,627,740 | 1,569,627,610 | 5 | 3 | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | Nothing wrong with making a man emotional. Go for it. | 1 | 130 | 1.666667 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvto3 | f1ntwa9 | 1,569,627,740 | 1,569,626,216 | 5 | 2 | > I always end up writing them too emotional, How do you know that if you have no close male acquaintances? | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | 1 | 1,524 | 2.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o1h6r | f1o9rpl | 1,569,632,113 | 1,569,638,572 | 3 | 4 | An interesting theory I saw floating around the internet (forget where) is that women are generally much better at writing men than the inverse, because so much media (Hollywood, traditional publishing, etc) is produced by men, for men, with a male perspective. My go to advice for men wanting to write women better is “read women writing women, and see how it looks from the inside.” For women writing men, you can get the inverse with so much of both modern pop-culture and enduring classics. You’ve almost certainly consumed a fair bit of men-from-men’s-perspective stories. | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 6,459 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o1h6r | f1ntwa9 | 1,569,632,113 | 1,569,626,216 | 3 | 2 | An interesting theory I saw floating around the internet (forget where) is that women are generally much better at writing men than the inverse, because so much media (Hollywood, traditional publishing, etc) is produced by men, for men, with a male perspective. My go to advice for men wanting to write women better is “read women writing women, and see how it looks from the inside.” For women writing men, you can get the inverse with so much of both modern pop-culture and enduring classics. You’ve almost certainly consumed a fair bit of men-from-men’s-perspective stories. | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | 1 | 5,897 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nxygc | f1o1h6r | 1,569,629,380 | 1,569,632,113 | 2 | 3 | Ron Swanson is the default man, use him as a foundation | An interesting theory I saw floating around the internet (forget where) is that women are generally much better at writing men than the inverse, because so much media (Hollywood, traditional publishing, etc) is produced by men, for men, with a male perspective. My go to advice for men wanting to write women better is “read women writing women, and see how it looks from the inside.” For women writing men, you can get the inverse with so much of both modern pop-culture and enduring classics. You’ve almost certainly consumed a fair bit of men-from-men’s-perspective stories. | 0 | 2,733 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o09hp | f1o1h6r | 1,569,631,171 | 1,569,632,113 | 2 | 3 | Women tend to mentally instrumentalize other people when considering means to fulfilling their goals, and it gets a little overgeneralized as women being "more people-oriented". Men tend to mentally instrumentalize themselves, objects, and abstract things, and will thus often let other people just "happen" to them (and, conversely, let themselves "just happen" to other people). The #1 implausible thing male characters written by women do is, I think, the way they overthink and overparse other people. Men don't tend to feel they lack operational knowledge of the situation if other people continue to be black boxes or Schroedinger's cats to them. They find out more about other people on a needs basis, where with things or ideas, they might seek understanding proactively. Under most circumstances, you neither gain much by looking better than usual, nor lose much by looking worse than usual. How much power you project in various ways, on the other hand, is a very frequent concern. This consists of: strength, status, relative age, and that thing (not specific to men, I'm quite sure) where you either expect your "deeper" self to be cooperative or to default on you, as it were, leaving you scrambling. How rehearsed and automated your standard "male" behaviors are is a factor. Now, there's huge individual *and* contextual (for the same person) variance to what I'm about to mention next, but this comes on the back of low-key expecting to be challenged to "prove your worth" without warning. There's the opposite sliding scale of how much you're tempted to be a dick to people just because you can, and the two aren't mutually exclusive. For most men, there's a circle to square: you learn some form of "the golden rule" but are also strongly prescribed a set of behaviours that are the exact opposite of it. "Do unto others what you wouldn't let them do unto you." This, I'd say, is what motivates men to think in ethical or quasi-ethical abstractions, whether they're "values" or "honor". They set thresholds, as it were, for when to switch to the zero-sum ethic of cultural masculinity. This is not a very conscious process; you start out with the abstractions you were taught, and then you build upon them, rebel against them, or some blend of the two, but they still tend to remain fairly abstract. Courage and confidence come on the back of past (subjective) success, or perhaps more importantly, absence of failure. Realistically, feats of courage are glorified dominance displays, and not everyone gets a dominance display that's worth risking everything for. Fictional works make being the heroic underdog seem way easier than it is. Men vs. emotions is a subject *everyone* oversimplifies. What even counts as an emotion? Some solitary pursuit may be very emotionally fulfilling, but we tend to think of emotions as more "people-oriented" because we are socialized to think of women as more emotional and hello, circular reasoning. What this means for writing purposes is that the "how" and the "towards who or what" of male emotion provide a more useful framework than the "how much". Metaphors and descriptions aren't a very gendered thing, I'd say. | An interesting theory I saw floating around the internet (forget where) is that women are generally much better at writing men than the inverse, because so much media (Hollywood, traditional publishing, etc) is produced by men, for men, with a male perspective. My go to advice for men wanting to write women better is “read women writing women, and see how it looks from the inside.” For women writing men, you can get the inverse with so much of both modern pop-culture and enduring classics. You’ve almost certainly consumed a fair bit of men-from-men’s-perspective stories. | 0 | 942 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1ni30d | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,617,786 | 4 | 3 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | Men express anger and revulsion more openly, with fewer implications or passive aggression when slighted by another character. We make faster and bolder decisions, for better or worse. Exposition about our love related emotions are typically not shared with other people. | 1 | 20,786 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nj2ct | f1o9rpl | 1,569,618,418 | 1,569,638,572 | 3 | 4 | I think tuning down the metaphors isn't a bad idea if you're trying to write an "average" man (but the question is, will people want to read about an average man) but you don't need to completely "unsoften" him just because he's a man. Men feel emotions just like anybody else. If your character is a soft and gentle guy, that's perfectly alright. If he's butch and macho that's a perfectly alright character as well. If he experiences emotions very strongly but doesn't communicate them that's a perfectly alright character. Go with the character, not the genitalia. And apropos: Don't mention the penis unless he is about to have sex or about to have it chopped off. | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 20,154 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1nsho9 | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,625,103 | 4 | 3 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | It's worth looking into male socialization. Everyone knows men typically act more tough and macho, but statistically feel pain more than women and are more emotional too. Basically, take a girl, remove all the subservient and communication-building female socialization, give her a ton of power, and then add a fuck ton of responsibility, bullying, and piss poor guidance and you get a more typically masculine character, | 1 | 13,469 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1nttn6 | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,626,157 | 4 | 3 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | I think you may have spoken to the emotions of your character too directly. Anger or disgust can be shown and written directly, but I think a lot of other emotions need to be written more indirectly and certainly not spoken of for the stereotypical masculine character. If you distance yourself in your narration and include more description of action being taken that might help. | 1 | 12,415 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nvnia | f1o9rpl | 1,569,627,610 | 1,569,638,572 | 3 | 4 | Nothing wrong with making a man emotional. Go for it. | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 10,962 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1nyj9d | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,629,833 | 4 | 3 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | Personally, I don't think there's a "right" way to write anyone. People are different. They think and express themselves differently. And there are plenty of men with traditionally feminine traits and plenty of women with more traditionally masculine aspects. There are men who repress their emotions and there are women who do the same thing. Your story should be lead by your characters. You're the author and your characters come from you, so you should write them the way *you* think they'd act and thhink. If you're writing a character--male or female--who's more expressive and feels his/her emotions strongly, nothing wrong with that. The most important thing should be: are these characters acting the way they would in this situation? And: are my characters interesting and/or likable enough to carry this story? Characters are the most important part of fiction, and as long as your characters feel like real people you would know, let them guide your story. I hope this was helpful. | 1 | 8,739 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1nzjzt | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,630,626 | 4 | 3 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | I will often gender swap my characters changing only the pronouns and gendered descriptions as an exercise. You'll be surprised how much the reader will bring to the story just by knowing the character's gender. Don't stress too much. Men and women are more alike than we care to admit. | 1 | 7,946 | 1.333333 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ntwa9 | f1o9rpl | 1,569,626,216 | 1,569,638,572 | 2 | 4 | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 12,356 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nxygc | f1o9rpl | 1,569,629,380 | 1,569,638,572 | 2 | 4 | Ron Swanson is the default man, use him as a foundation | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 9,192 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o09hp | f1o9rpl | 1,569,631,171 | 1,569,638,572 | 2 | 4 | Women tend to mentally instrumentalize other people when considering means to fulfilling their goals, and it gets a little overgeneralized as women being "more people-oriented". Men tend to mentally instrumentalize themselves, objects, and abstract things, and will thus often let other people just "happen" to them (and, conversely, let themselves "just happen" to other people). The #1 implausible thing male characters written by women do is, I think, the way they overthink and overparse other people. Men don't tend to feel they lack operational knowledge of the situation if other people continue to be black boxes or Schroedinger's cats to them. They find out more about other people on a needs basis, where with things or ideas, they might seek understanding proactively. Under most circumstances, you neither gain much by looking better than usual, nor lose much by looking worse than usual. How much power you project in various ways, on the other hand, is a very frequent concern. This consists of: strength, status, relative age, and that thing (not specific to men, I'm quite sure) where you either expect your "deeper" self to be cooperative or to default on you, as it were, leaving you scrambling. How rehearsed and automated your standard "male" behaviors are is a factor. Now, there's huge individual *and* contextual (for the same person) variance to what I'm about to mention next, but this comes on the back of low-key expecting to be challenged to "prove your worth" without warning. There's the opposite sliding scale of how much you're tempted to be a dick to people just because you can, and the two aren't mutually exclusive. For most men, there's a circle to square: you learn some form of "the golden rule" but are also strongly prescribed a set of behaviours that are the exact opposite of it. "Do unto others what you wouldn't let them do unto you." This, I'd say, is what motivates men to think in ethical or quasi-ethical abstractions, whether they're "values" or "honor". They set thresholds, as it were, for when to switch to the zero-sum ethic of cultural masculinity. This is not a very conscious process; you start out with the abstractions you were taught, and then you build upon them, rebel against them, or some blend of the two, but they still tend to remain fairly abstract. Courage and confidence come on the back of past (subjective) success, or perhaps more importantly, absence of failure. Realistically, feats of courage are glorified dominance displays, and not everyone gets a dominance display that's worth risking everything for. Fictional works make being the heroic underdog seem way easier than it is. Men vs. emotions is a subject *everyone* oversimplifies. What even counts as an emotion? Some solitary pursuit may be very emotionally fulfilling, but we tend to think of emotions as more "people-oriented" because we are socialized to think of women as more emotional and hello, circular reasoning. What this means for writing purposes is that the "how" and the "towards who or what" of male emotion provide a more useful framework than the "how much". Metaphors and descriptions aren't a very gendered thing, I'd say. | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | 0 | 7,401 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1o9rpl | f1o26bu | 1,569,638,572 | 1,569,632,650 | 4 | 2 | >I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I actually can't guess that. >I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. If you get time, The Great Gatsby, as many of the Sherlock Holmes short stories as you want, and Steinbeck's Travels With Charley are my go-to spread for male first-person perspective narrators written by men. They're all pretty short too, as fiction goes. >Any tips on how to write in their povs? Men are people. They are highly varied, have insecurities, complexes, and hangups. They daydream, fantasize, and want to be with people who understand them - but don't understand them too much. (And they're generally really bad about understanding hints or giving recognizable ones.) This is all variable individually and culturally, of course, and I'm giving a highly biased and very broad view from a modern American man's perspective. Men are often culturally schooled into suppressing or hiding their emotions. This can be a good thing in situations where, logically, having, say (oh, let's just pick an example name out of a hat), Bernie as an active, integrated, and functioning member of the team is entirely worth the fact that I fucking hate Bernie for unrelated personal reasons (or our personalities don't mesh well), and I just need to put a lid on it for the greater good and/or to keep my job or to complete the project. This can be a bad thing in situations where displaying an emotional response would actually work better to build bonds with somebody than a more 'bloodless' reaction'. Hierarchy is generally pretty important to guys. Not merely in terms of being at the top (or even trying to get there), but in knowing where *your* place is. Particularly in situations where there's no formal hierarchy, guys will often try to establish an informal (even an unspoken) one as fast as possible, and then everything's good until somebody attempts to disrupt it. The crazy part is that the hierarchy can be completely different, in the same group, for different contexts. The guy who mixes the best drinks is the guy who mixes the best drinks. The guy who presides over the party is the guy who presides over parties the best, and gets to shut down the mixologist's efforts if people are getting too slammed. The guy who has basic medical knowledge, bandages, and isopropyl alcohol can shout orders at them both when someone at the party cuts themselves on a shattered shot glass - although he can't mix drinks or run a party to save his life. It's not a challenge if it's been accepted that in that particular sphere, one of them is top dog. Competition and one-upmanship comes into play somewhere within that mix too, but that usually gets ironed out pretty fast. Between themselves, guys generally only talk about sex in at least a half-jocular manner. Maybe that's an odd American cultural thing, or just the dudes I've hung out with, but it's often a topic that's implicitly agreed upon as being too serious to discuss seriously, in my experience. It generally takes a lot of time, trust, and alcohol to get a guy to be honest about anything emotional. (Or it just takes the magical anonymity of the internet!) There's more truth in the old wives' saying of "women take trouble for others, men try to not give trouble to others" than you might think. When guys do take trouble for others, it's often as a 'project', with a defined goal where they can say (at least internally) "it is now complete" when it's over and done with. (This is a legendary cause of friction among couples where "could you clean the toilet?" results in the toilet *and nothing else* being cleaned. It's not malicious compliance, it's just the way ~~dogs~~ men think about stuff. If the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned, specify that the whole bathroom needs to be cleaned. And if you've got a ~~dog~~ guy who includes the ceiling of the bathroom in cleaning the whole bathroom, keep him.) >I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. This is highly anecdotal, as is everything else I've said, but my father is the only person in my entire family I've ever seen shed tears of joy at weddings. Wasn't just a one-time thing, either - the man has cried at every wedding I've seen him at, and it's because he's happy for the couple. Most guys do not feel that they have the leeway to express emotions like that, but that doesn't mean they don't think or feel them. Guys can get (and often do get) as "she loves me, she loves me not" with the flower petals as the most ridiculously stereotypical female romance protagonist. It's just not something they show to anybody else unless they have to or really trust the person they're showing that side of themselves to. >should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? The most famous writers of absolutely purple prose in history have been men. So, no. Go for it. | I had a similar problem and I solved it studying male characters from literature, mythology, tarot, Shakespeare. You can look after inspiration in anything you love but I’d say classical stuff is better, masterpieces that stand the test of time. Choose pieces with excellent women and children characters as well, analyze the contrast between them. Read papers on them. Try to understand what makes the men in those artworks different from the fictional women around them, and from the women around you. | 1 | 5,922 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ntwa9 | f1nvnia | 1,569,626,216 | 1,569,627,610 | 2 | 3 | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | Nothing wrong with making a man emotional. Go for it. | 0 | 1,394 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nyj9d | f1ntwa9 | 1,569,629,833 | 1,569,626,216 | 3 | 2 | Personally, I don't think there's a "right" way to write anyone. People are different. They think and express themselves differently. And there are plenty of men with traditionally feminine traits and plenty of women with more traditionally masculine aspects. There are men who repress their emotions and there are women who do the same thing. Your story should be lead by your characters. You're the author and your characters come from you, so you should write them the way *you* think they'd act and thhink. If you're writing a character--male or female--who's more expressive and feels his/her emotions strongly, nothing wrong with that. The most important thing should be: are these characters acting the way they would in this situation? And: are my characters interesting and/or likable enough to carry this story? Characters are the most important part of fiction, and as long as your characters feel like real people you would know, let them guide your story. I hope this was helpful. | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | 1 | 3,617 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nxygc | f1nyj9d | 1,569,629,380 | 1,569,629,833 | 2 | 3 | Ron Swanson is the default man, use him as a foundation | Personally, I don't think there's a "right" way to write anyone. People are different. They think and express themselves differently. And there are plenty of men with traditionally feminine traits and plenty of women with more traditionally masculine aspects. There are men who repress their emotions and there are women who do the same thing. Your story should be lead by your characters. You're the author and your characters come from you, so you should write them the way *you* think they'd act and thhink. If you're writing a character--male or female--who's more expressive and feels his/her emotions strongly, nothing wrong with that. The most important thing should be: are these characters acting the way they would in this situation? And: are my characters interesting and/or likable enough to carry this story? Characters are the most important part of fiction, and as long as your characters feel like real people you would know, let them guide your story. I hope this was helpful. | 0 | 453 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nzjzt | f1ntwa9 | 1,569,630,626 | 1,569,626,216 | 3 | 2 | I will often gender swap my characters changing only the pronouns and gendered descriptions as an exercise. You'll be surprised how much the reader will bring to the story just by knowing the character's gender. Don't stress too much. Men and women are more alike than we care to admit. | Men can be very emotional. It's just that we're conditioned to suppress expressing it as much as women do. It's why the "tough guy" stereotype exists. Men are also expected to be logical, straightforward, dependable providers. Imagine having the same emotions you do now, but having society ostracise you if you ever express them openly. Right or wrong, it leads to men in general internalizing pretty much most emotions they feel. It isn't that men don't have insecurities (we most certainly do), it's just that we are socialized to maintain a facade of strength and stability at all times. Testosterone is also a big influence as well. Men tend to be more aggressive and competitive. They also tend to be more stubborn and unwilling to cooperate with others. And any red-blooded male will lose his mind at the sight of a beautiful woman. It's just the way we're wired. But, like anyone, men can display both masculine and feminine traits. We are all individuals, after all. Unless you're writing something that specifically deals with "male-ness", I wouldn't worry too much about it. | 1 | 4,410 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1nxygc | f1nzjzt | 1,569,629,380 | 1,569,630,626 | 2 | 3 | Ron Swanson is the default man, use him as a foundation | I will often gender swap my characters changing only the pronouns and gendered descriptions as an exercise. You'll be surprised how much the reader will bring to the story just by knowing the character's gender. Don't stress too much. Men and women are more alike than we care to admit. | 0 | 1,246 | 1.5 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ol8im | f1ojhlf | 1,569,650,052 | 1,569,648,019 | 2 | 1 | Men have just as many emotions as women, but it's not socially acceptable to express most of them (except anger). You might consider having a sharp contrast between what your narrator says in narration and dialogue. So whatever he says is maybe 10% of what he's feeling. | Boys are emotional too. Let your boys be emotional. But if you’re that worried... just read some more stories from a male POV??? | 1 | 2,033 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ol8im | f1ol5xd | 1,569,650,052 | 1,569,649,965 | 2 | 1 | Men have just as many emotions as women, but it's not socially acceptable to express most of them (except anger). You might consider having a sharp contrast between what your narrator says in narration and dialogue. So whatever he says is maybe 10% of what he's feeling. | I know you have gotten a lot of responses already but I really hope you see this. I am a male and I recommend you write them like people. Just like you would write a woman. Human Beings are emotional creatures no matter the gender they may identify as. | 1 | 87 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f280ip7 | f1ojhlf | 1,570,049,998 | 1,569,648,019 | 2 | 1 | My advice would be that if you think you're writing your male characters as too emotional, try to think how you might rephrase if you had to comunicate the same thing aloud to an audience of high-school bullies with social media access. | Boys are emotional too. Let your boys be emotional. But if you’re that worried... just read some more stories from a male POV??? | 1 | 401,979 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f1ol5xd | f280ip7 | 1,569,649,965 | 1,570,049,998 | 1 | 2 | I know you have gotten a lot of responses already but I really hope you see this. I am a male and I recommend you write them like people. Just like you would write a woman. Human Beings are emotional creatures no matter the gender they may identify as. | My advice would be that if you think you're writing your male characters as too emotional, try to think how you might rephrase if you had to comunicate the same thing aloud to an audience of high-school bullies with social media access. | 0 | 400,033 | 2 | ||
da5tcu | writing_train | 0.69 | How do you write in a male character's pov? I'm a female, got only female siblings, come from an all girls school, and got no male close friends, so you can guess how hard it is for me to write in a male’s pov. I haven't read much in their povs either (other than the Maze Runner series, and The Prisoner of Zenda), but while reading more of that will help me in the long run, I'm currently short on time with an update schedule. Any tips on how to write in their povs? I always end up writing them too emotional, especially when I try to describe their loving or sad emotions. How do I write their emotions in a way that's not too "soft", so that it's a bit more accurate? Also, should I write less metaphors and descriptive paragraphs when in my male character's pov? | f280ip7 | f1vg7jt | 1,570,049,998 | 1,569,770,498 | 2 | 1 | My advice would be that if you think you're writing your male characters as too emotional, try to think how you might rephrase if you had to comunicate the same thing aloud to an audience of high-school bullies with social media access. | Men think about sex every 7 seconds | 1 | 279,500 | 2 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1wxvue | h1wxso8 | 1,623,804,630 | 1,623,804,585 | 64 | 21 | There is nothing wrong with tropes as long you include an edge to them. *What if the bubbly girl actually has pretty mórbid Interests? *If the accent guy actually fakes the accent because he wanted to fit in?? Nuance is the all conquering tool that makes tropes palatable. Because real people are nuanced and complex. | I actually had a method when creating the characters for my novel that helped me avoid falling into a Trope. Steal if this helpful! 1: Write a list of all characteristics of the Trope down. (brooding,shy, amateur arsonist etc) 2: Crossout anything you don't like about the Trope. (For me, I tended to eliminate the more contrived character traits) 3: (This is optional I only did it when I felt necessary) I would pick a few traits and write a short paragraph of why the character had that trait, what made them the way they were. 4: (The fun part) What from this Trope have you not seen but would really like to see? Is the Trope in question usually humorless? Make them funny! so on and so forth. I found doing this also made me lean in on some tropes when I thought I wouldn't. Sometimes things are just good because they're good, I guess. | 1 | 45 | 3.047619 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1wx54z | h1wxvue | 1,623,804,246 | 1,623,804,630 | 6 | 64 | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | There is nothing wrong with tropes as long you include an edge to them. *What if the bubbly girl actually has pretty mórbid Interests? *If the accent guy actually fakes the accent because he wanted to fit in?? Nuance is the all conquering tool that makes tropes palatable. Because real people are nuanced and complex. | 0 | 384 | 10.666667 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1wxso8 | h1x3fth | 1,623,804,585 | 1,623,807,505 | 21 | 59 | I actually had a method when creating the characters for my novel that helped me avoid falling into a Trope. Steal if this helpful! 1: Write a list of all characteristics of the Trope down. (brooding,shy, amateur arsonist etc) 2: Crossout anything you don't like about the Trope. (For me, I tended to eliminate the more contrived character traits) 3: (This is optional I only did it when I felt necessary) I would pick a few traits and write a short paragraph of why the character had that trait, what made them the way they were. 4: (The fun part) What from this Trope have you not seen but would really like to see? Is the Trope in question usually humorless? Make them funny! so on and so forth. I found doing this also made me lean in on some tropes when I thought I wouldn't. Sometimes things are just good because they're good, I guess. | Make them people. Tropes exist because they're stereotypes. Take the brooding hero, I'm sure you can imagine at least a dozen characters who match the concept of the stoic loner with a heart of gold and a tragic past, and it wouldn't be hard. Tropes are guidelines but you don't have to adhere to them. Your characters still need to have moments of weakness, of confusion, and of genuine emotional connection to whatever they're faced with. If your Ice Queen character feels too cold, give her a hobby like gardening. Gardening is inherently nurturing, something the Ice Queen shouldn't seem capable of expressing, yet her garden is positively alive with color and growth. This could show she isn't cold to *all the time,* just towards people, and this begs the question of 'why'. You now have a subplot about your Ice Queen's backstory (dead friend, lost lover, etc..). I can't stress this enough, characters aren't cardboard cutouts of singular emotions. They're as close to real people as the mind can get. They have to feel *real* and have *real* motivations and *real* reactions. | 0 | 2,920 | 2.809524 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x3fth | h1wx54z | 1,623,807,505 | 1,623,804,246 | 59 | 6 | Make them people. Tropes exist because they're stereotypes. Take the brooding hero, I'm sure you can imagine at least a dozen characters who match the concept of the stoic loner with a heart of gold and a tragic past, and it wouldn't be hard. Tropes are guidelines but you don't have to adhere to them. Your characters still need to have moments of weakness, of confusion, and of genuine emotional connection to whatever they're faced with. If your Ice Queen character feels too cold, give her a hobby like gardening. Gardening is inherently nurturing, something the Ice Queen shouldn't seem capable of expressing, yet her garden is positively alive with color and growth. This could show she isn't cold to *all the time,* just towards people, and this begs the question of 'why'. You now have a subplot about your Ice Queen's backstory (dead friend, lost lover, etc..). I can't stress this enough, characters aren't cardboard cutouts of singular emotions. They're as close to real people as the mind can get. They have to feel *real* and have *real* motivations and *real* reactions. | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | 1 | 3,259 | 9.833333 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1wxso8 | h1wx54z | 1,623,804,585 | 1,623,804,246 | 21 | 6 | I actually had a method when creating the characters for my novel that helped me avoid falling into a Trope. Steal if this helpful! 1: Write a list of all characteristics of the Trope down. (brooding,shy, amateur arsonist etc) 2: Crossout anything you don't like about the Trope. (For me, I tended to eliminate the more contrived character traits) 3: (This is optional I only did it when I felt necessary) I would pick a few traits and write a short paragraph of why the character had that trait, what made them the way they were. 4: (The fun part) What from this Trope have you not seen but would really like to see? Is the Trope in question usually humorless? Make them funny! so on and so forth. I found doing this also made me lean in on some tropes when I thought I wouldn't. Sometimes things are just good because they're good, I guess. | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | 1 | 339 | 3.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1xc6g3 | h1x4jd4 | 1,623,812,041 | 1,623,808,078 | 21 | 16 | I read several of your comments across several very different points of advice. You're quite combative. Seems like you're looking for a confirmation of your opinion rather than a real answer to your question. If you want to write that way fine, but it sure won't work if you want the help of a writing group. It also won't make am agent or publisher very happy if you're combative on everything. About your question, lots of incredibly memorable characters fall into various tropes. You also mentioned making characters realistic and relatable. This isn't necessarily good writing. Relatable people say stupid things they didn't mean to even if they are confident and intelligent. If a character does that, it makes us think them less confident and intelligent potentially depending on the situation. Relatable characters sneeze at an inappropriate time. A reader loses their connection in a story when that happens because they wonder why that happened. Something else to remember is that many of the most common tropes were created in imitation of the most memorable characters. | I DON'T avoid tropes. I know tropes and cliches have a bad reputation these days, but that sort of snap judgement is very unfair. LAZILY OR HAPHAZARDLY IMPLEMENTED CLICHES are the problem, because they lead to flat, shallow, and predictable stock characters. I can't remember who said it, but the best description I ever heard was that a trope is basically a shorthand description that lets the audience more quickly accept your character's core. While we want to be surprised, the truth is that we ALSO like what we're comfortable with. It's totally fine to start out with a trope-y character, and build them up. Flesh them out. Give them a unique voice and a point of view. Make them a 3-dimensional, complex person. In fact, you can even use cliches to your advantage, preying on the expectations that they entail, only to subvert those expectations by taking your character in a different, unexpected direction. Ultimately, I'd say that it all comes down to execution. Even a simple character can resonate with the audience if they're written particular well. If a character seems boring, try giving them someone else to bounce off of! Some characters really come to life when they're surrounded by the right supporting cast. After all, a good measure of someone's character is how they treat others. Does that reflect how they think/feel on the inside? What sorts of dynamics do they have with the rest of the cast? I feel like plenty of my own characters would seem a little lackluster on their own, but in the ensemble cast, they really stand out- not just to me, but to my beta readers. Across the board, I've been told that my story's greatest strength is the chemistry that the main cast shares. My point is, **the cast is greater than the sum of its parts.** Never underestimate the power of the right combination of characters! After all, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Princess Leia all fall into very common archetypes, yet they're some of the most beloved and recognizable characters in all of pop culture. Sorry to ramble on for WAY too long. I hope I was able to help. Best of luck! | 1 | 3,963 | 1.3125 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x7yqd | h1xc6g3 | 1,623,809,872 | 1,623,812,041 | 9 | 21 | >>>Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. I've had a lot of people say stuff like this about one of my characters, complaining that he "talks funny for no reason" or "what is the weird accent you gave him and why, I can barely understand what he's saying" or "all his dialogue is in reverse negative, he's talking backwards, why did you do that" and I always roll my eyes, because, OMG! He's speaking MY NATIVE LANGUGE - AN ACTUAL REAL WORLD LANGUAGE - one you can learn, buy dictionaries for and everything. Fact remains American English is not my native tongue and the novels were originally written in my native language. Well, this one character is the same race as me, so when the books were translated into English, I asked that his dialogue not be touched, and it left exactly as it was written. But if you read the old untranslated into American English editions, you would see that the ENTIRE novel was originally written in the language seen in his dialogue. He speaks the same language I do, and the 1st editions of the novels were WRITTEN ENTIRLY in that language. Later editions were translated into American English and left his dialogue as the only dialogue untranslated. A lot of people say he talks strange... well... yeah you know what? I think Americans talk strange. So how is that different? Anything not your native tongue comes off sounding strange if you are not familiar with it. But OMG! So many people will ask me: "Why did you make up such a weird language?" "Why are you using a fictional language?" "Why's you write him with a wonky accent?" *rolls eyes* He speaks in Gypsy Cant also known as Scottish English. It's a REAL language. Spoken by a few million people in the real world. Not only that it's my NATIVE language, the language ALL of my family and my relatives and friends and neighbours ALL speak every day. It is NOT made up, fictional, or "wonky accent" like some ignorant people have described it. I just think it's funny, that so many authors will make up fake languages, to the extent that readers don't recognize a REAL WORLD language when they see it. Of course, I think it's equally as funny that people who don't speak American English are even a trope at all, I mean, how many people reading this right now speak American English as their native language? Why shouldn't authors write characters who speak the same native tongue the author speaks? I think the problem, why this became a trope, is because so many people make up fake fantasy languages to make their characters sound cool, hip, and trendy, that characters who actually speak real world languages, just get assumed to be speaking fictional accent to sound cool. Which is frustrating for those of us who don't speak American English as our native language, and we want to include a character who is our real world race/culture because we identify with our own native culture/race/language, and we get tossed into the "oh that's just an accent character trope". :( It makes me sad to think that my race is so rarely seen in novels and is used so tropishly when it is used, that when an actual Gypsy, writes and actual Gypsy character, speaking actual real world Gypsy language, he gets seen as a trope and nothing more (which is a thing people have said. I've gotten emails from readers saying: "You shouldn't write Gypsies that way, real Gypsies wouldn't like it" and I'm just.... uhm... you know I AM a real world Gypsy and he does and says things me and my family do in real life, right? Oh well. It's not as bad as the email I got saying: "Wait, are Gypsies real? I thought they were just some fictional fantasy race like Elves and Unicorns. I had no idea they were real people." *sigh* | I read several of your comments across several very different points of advice. You're quite combative. Seems like you're looking for a confirmation of your opinion rather than a real answer to your question. If you want to write that way fine, but it sure won't work if you want the help of a writing group. It also won't make am agent or publisher very happy if you're combative on everything. About your question, lots of incredibly memorable characters fall into various tropes. You also mentioned making characters realistic and relatable. This isn't necessarily good writing. Relatable people say stupid things they didn't mean to even if they are confident and intelligent. If a character does that, it makes us think them less confident and intelligent potentially depending on the situation. Relatable characters sneeze at an inappropriate time. A reader loses their connection in a story when that happens because they wonder why that happened. Something else to remember is that many of the most common tropes were created in imitation of the most memorable characters. | 0 | 2,169 | 2.333333 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1xc6g3 | h1wx54z | 1,623,812,041 | 1,623,804,246 | 21 | 6 | I read several of your comments across several very different points of advice. You're quite combative. Seems like you're looking for a confirmation of your opinion rather than a real answer to your question. If you want to write that way fine, but it sure won't work if you want the help of a writing group. It also won't make am agent or publisher very happy if you're combative on everything. About your question, lots of incredibly memorable characters fall into various tropes. You also mentioned making characters realistic and relatable. This isn't necessarily good writing. Relatable people say stupid things they didn't mean to even if they are confident and intelligent. If a character does that, it makes us think them less confident and intelligent potentially depending on the situation. Relatable characters sneeze at an inappropriate time. A reader loses their connection in a story when that happens because they wonder why that happened. Something else to remember is that many of the most common tropes were created in imitation of the most memorable characters. | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | 1 | 7,795 | 3.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x8523 | h1xc6g3 | 1,623,809,963 | 1,623,812,041 | 3 | 21 | Creating characters is my favorite part of writing. Tbh I'm not sure if I avoid tropes or not, I just chose to ignore them. I like to create my characters based on the realism of the situation. its all about the experiences to form the character and their personality. | I read several of your comments across several very different points of advice. You're quite combative. Seems like you're looking for a confirmation of your opinion rather than a real answer to your question. If you want to write that way fine, but it sure won't work if you want the help of a writing group. It also won't make am agent or publisher very happy if you're combative on everything. About your question, lots of incredibly memorable characters fall into various tropes. You also mentioned making characters realistic and relatable. This isn't necessarily good writing. Relatable people say stupid things they didn't mean to even if they are confident and intelligent. If a character does that, it makes us think them less confident and intelligent potentially depending on the situation. Relatable characters sneeze at an inappropriate time. A reader loses their connection in a story when that happens because they wonder why that happened. Something else to remember is that many of the most common tropes were created in imitation of the most memorable characters. | 0 | 2,078 | 7 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x6bsz | h1xc6g3 | 1,623,809,013 | 1,623,812,041 | 2 | 21 | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | I read several of your comments across several very different points of advice. You're quite combative. Seems like you're looking for a confirmation of your opinion rather than a real answer to your question. If you want to write that way fine, but it sure won't work if you want the help of a writing group. It also won't make am agent or publisher very happy if you're combative on everything. About your question, lots of incredibly memorable characters fall into various tropes. You also mentioned making characters realistic and relatable. This isn't necessarily good writing. Relatable people say stupid things they didn't mean to even if they are confident and intelligent. If a character does that, it makes us think them less confident and intelligent potentially depending on the situation. Relatable characters sneeze at an inappropriate time. A reader loses their connection in a story when that happens because they wonder why that happened. Something else to remember is that many of the most common tropes were created in imitation of the most memorable characters. | 0 | 3,028 | 10.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x4jd4 | h1wx54z | 1,623,808,078 | 1,623,804,246 | 16 | 6 | I DON'T avoid tropes. I know tropes and cliches have a bad reputation these days, but that sort of snap judgement is very unfair. LAZILY OR HAPHAZARDLY IMPLEMENTED CLICHES are the problem, because they lead to flat, shallow, and predictable stock characters. I can't remember who said it, but the best description I ever heard was that a trope is basically a shorthand description that lets the audience more quickly accept your character's core. While we want to be surprised, the truth is that we ALSO like what we're comfortable with. It's totally fine to start out with a trope-y character, and build them up. Flesh them out. Give them a unique voice and a point of view. Make them a 3-dimensional, complex person. In fact, you can even use cliches to your advantage, preying on the expectations that they entail, only to subvert those expectations by taking your character in a different, unexpected direction. Ultimately, I'd say that it all comes down to execution. Even a simple character can resonate with the audience if they're written particular well. If a character seems boring, try giving them someone else to bounce off of! Some characters really come to life when they're surrounded by the right supporting cast. After all, a good measure of someone's character is how they treat others. Does that reflect how they think/feel on the inside? What sorts of dynamics do they have with the rest of the cast? I feel like plenty of my own characters would seem a little lackluster on their own, but in the ensemble cast, they really stand out- not just to me, but to my beta readers. Across the board, I've been told that my story's greatest strength is the chemistry that the main cast shares. My point is, **the cast is greater than the sum of its parts.** Never underestimate the power of the right combination of characters! After all, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Princess Leia all fall into very common archetypes, yet they're some of the most beloved and recognizable characters in all of pop culture. Sorry to ramble on for WAY too long. I hope I was able to help. Best of luck! | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | 1 | 3,832 | 2.666667 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x7yqd | h1wx54z | 1,623,809,872 | 1,623,804,246 | 9 | 6 | >>>Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. I've had a lot of people say stuff like this about one of my characters, complaining that he "talks funny for no reason" or "what is the weird accent you gave him and why, I can barely understand what he's saying" or "all his dialogue is in reverse negative, he's talking backwards, why did you do that" and I always roll my eyes, because, OMG! He's speaking MY NATIVE LANGUGE - AN ACTUAL REAL WORLD LANGUAGE - one you can learn, buy dictionaries for and everything. Fact remains American English is not my native tongue and the novels were originally written in my native language. Well, this one character is the same race as me, so when the books were translated into English, I asked that his dialogue not be touched, and it left exactly as it was written. But if you read the old untranslated into American English editions, you would see that the ENTIRE novel was originally written in the language seen in his dialogue. He speaks the same language I do, and the 1st editions of the novels were WRITTEN ENTIRLY in that language. Later editions were translated into American English and left his dialogue as the only dialogue untranslated. A lot of people say he talks strange... well... yeah you know what? I think Americans talk strange. So how is that different? Anything not your native tongue comes off sounding strange if you are not familiar with it. But OMG! So many people will ask me: "Why did you make up such a weird language?" "Why are you using a fictional language?" "Why's you write him with a wonky accent?" *rolls eyes* He speaks in Gypsy Cant also known as Scottish English. It's a REAL language. Spoken by a few million people in the real world. Not only that it's my NATIVE language, the language ALL of my family and my relatives and friends and neighbours ALL speak every day. It is NOT made up, fictional, or "wonky accent" like some ignorant people have described it. I just think it's funny, that so many authors will make up fake languages, to the extent that readers don't recognize a REAL WORLD language when they see it. Of course, I think it's equally as funny that people who don't speak American English are even a trope at all, I mean, how many people reading this right now speak American English as their native language? Why shouldn't authors write characters who speak the same native tongue the author speaks? I think the problem, why this became a trope, is because so many people make up fake fantasy languages to make their characters sound cool, hip, and trendy, that characters who actually speak real world languages, just get assumed to be speaking fictional accent to sound cool. Which is frustrating for those of us who don't speak American English as our native language, and we want to include a character who is our real world race/culture because we identify with our own native culture/race/language, and we get tossed into the "oh that's just an accent character trope". :( It makes me sad to think that my race is so rarely seen in novels and is used so tropishly when it is used, that when an actual Gypsy, writes and actual Gypsy character, speaking actual real world Gypsy language, he gets seen as a trope and nothing more (which is a thing people have said. I've gotten emails from readers saying: "You shouldn't write Gypsies that way, real Gypsies wouldn't like it" and I'm just.... uhm... you know I AM a real world Gypsy and he does and says things me and my family do in real life, right? Oh well. It's not as bad as the email I got saying: "Wait, are Gypsies real? I thought they were just some fictional fantasy race like Elves and Unicorns. I had no idea they were real people." *sigh* | How about mixing tropes, take the young master, and make them overprotective of the MC/group. Or make the OP student shy around everyone. Just an idea. | 1 | 5,626 | 1.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x6bsz | h1x7yqd | 1,623,809,013 | 1,623,809,872 | 2 | 9 | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | >>>Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. I've had a lot of people say stuff like this about one of my characters, complaining that he "talks funny for no reason" or "what is the weird accent you gave him and why, I can barely understand what he's saying" or "all his dialogue is in reverse negative, he's talking backwards, why did you do that" and I always roll my eyes, because, OMG! He's speaking MY NATIVE LANGUGE - AN ACTUAL REAL WORLD LANGUAGE - one you can learn, buy dictionaries for and everything. Fact remains American English is not my native tongue and the novels were originally written in my native language. Well, this one character is the same race as me, so when the books were translated into English, I asked that his dialogue not be touched, and it left exactly as it was written. But if you read the old untranslated into American English editions, you would see that the ENTIRE novel was originally written in the language seen in his dialogue. He speaks the same language I do, and the 1st editions of the novels were WRITTEN ENTIRLY in that language. Later editions were translated into American English and left his dialogue as the only dialogue untranslated. A lot of people say he talks strange... well... yeah you know what? I think Americans talk strange. So how is that different? Anything not your native tongue comes off sounding strange if you are not familiar with it. But OMG! So many people will ask me: "Why did you make up such a weird language?" "Why are you using a fictional language?" "Why's you write him with a wonky accent?" *rolls eyes* He speaks in Gypsy Cant also known as Scottish English. It's a REAL language. Spoken by a few million people in the real world. Not only that it's my NATIVE language, the language ALL of my family and my relatives and friends and neighbours ALL speak every day. It is NOT made up, fictional, or "wonky accent" like some ignorant people have described it. I just think it's funny, that so many authors will make up fake languages, to the extent that readers don't recognize a REAL WORLD language when they see it. Of course, I think it's equally as funny that people who don't speak American English are even a trope at all, I mean, how many people reading this right now speak American English as their native language? Why shouldn't authors write characters who speak the same native tongue the author speaks? I think the problem, why this became a trope, is because so many people make up fake fantasy languages to make their characters sound cool, hip, and trendy, that characters who actually speak real world languages, just get assumed to be speaking fictional accent to sound cool. Which is frustrating for those of us who don't speak American English as our native language, and we want to include a character who is our real world race/culture because we identify with our own native culture/race/language, and we get tossed into the "oh that's just an accent character trope". :( It makes me sad to think that my race is so rarely seen in novels and is used so tropishly when it is used, that when an actual Gypsy, writes and actual Gypsy character, speaking actual real world Gypsy language, he gets seen as a trope and nothing more (which is a thing people have said. I've gotten emails from readers saying: "You shouldn't write Gypsies that way, real Gypsies wouldn't like it" and I'm just.... uhm... you know I AM a real world Gypsy and he does and says things me and my family do in real life, right? Oh well. It's not as bad as the email I got saying: "Wait, are Gypsies real? I thought they were just some fictional fantasy race like Elves and Unicorns. I had no idea they were real people." *sigh* | 0 | 859 | 4.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1xwf48 | h1x8523 | 1,623,825,381 | 1,623,809,963 | 5 | 3 | I mean what I do with my characters. Is I pretend I’m them and try to put some of my personality traits with my characters. Also I think of how they would react in situations and what they would do. Tropes are somewhat good becuase they are stepping stones to building a epic character. Don’t just have a trope and that’s it or it will make them a piece of furniture. | Creating characters is my favorite part of writing. Tbh I'm not sure if I avoid tropes or not, I just chose to ignore them. I like to create my characters based on the realism of the situation. its all about the experiences to form the character and their personality. | 1 | 15,418 | 1.666667 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x8523 | h1y9vne | 1,623,809,963 | 1,623,837,759 | 3 | 4 | Creating characters is my favorite part of writing. Tbh I'm not sure if I avoid tropes or not, I just chose to ignore them. I like to create my characters based on the realism of the situation. its all about the experiences to form the character and their personality. | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | 0 | 27,796 | 1.333333 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x8523 | h1x6bsz | 1,623,809,963 | 1,623,809,013 | 3 | 2 | Creating characters is my favorite part of writing. Tbh I'm not sure if I avoid tropes or not, I just chose to ignore them. I like to create my characters based on the realism of the situation. its all about the experiences to form the character and their personality. | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | 1 | 950 | 1.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x6bsz | h1xwf48 | 1,623,809,013 | 1,623,825,381 | 2 | 5 | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | I mean what I do with my characters. Is I pretend I’m them and try to put some of my personality traits with my characters. Also I think of how they would react in situations and what they would do. Tropes are somewhat good becuase they are stepping stones to building a epic character. Don’t just have a trope and that’s it or it will make them a piece of furniture. | 0 | 16,368 | 2.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y1ihn | h1y9vne | 1,623,829,841 | 1,623,837,759 | 3 | 4 | Saying you want to write a story without tropes is like saying you want to eat a chemical free diet. In the first place, you're conflating tropes with cliches. A trope is just an idea. You're either playing it straight, averting it, subverting it, or lampshading it. But you're not avoiding them entirely. There's a reason why many TV tropes entries has a section devoted to Your Mileage May Vary. Because its ultimately the reader who identify the tropes in your story. | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | 0 | 7,918 | 1.333333 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y1ihn | h1x6bsz | 1,623,829,841 | 1,623,809,013 | 3 | 2 | Saying you want to write a story without tropes is like saying you want to eat a chemical free diet. In the first place, you're conflating tropes with cliches. A trope is just an idea. You're either playing it straight, averting it, subverting it, or lampshading it. But you're not avoiding them entirely. There's a reason why many TV tropes entries has a section devoted to Your Mileage May Vary. Because its ultimately the reader who identify the tropes in your story. | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | 1 | 20,828 | 1.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y0tml | h1y9vne | 1,623,829,207 | 1,623,837,759 | 3 | 4 | I try to create human scale characters and place them in a much biger context. It allows me to talk about more personal problems that everybody could face, and link it to the story in order to make the résolution of the problem more epic | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | 0 | 8,552 | 1.333333 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1x6bsz | h1y9vne | 1,623,809,013 | 1,623,837,759 | 2 | 4 | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | 0 | 28,746 | 2 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y9vne | h1y2gj9 | 1,623,837,759 | 1,623,830,723 | 4 | 1 | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | I think part of the problem is that these types are often portrayed without consequences. A good rule of the thumb is that all significant relationships are defined by conflict. So, for example, "Fiery Woman" becomes much more interesting when "Conflicted Villain" has a change of heart and joins Team Good. Things could go really badly wrong if she loses her temper with him. "Accent" is actually super articulate in their own language, and their tragic difficulty in communicating with nuance in the common language keeps accidentally crushing "Shy Sister", who in turn becomes increasingly erratic. "Ice Queen" is really just an introvert, and reacts badly to the attempts of "Honest Big Guy" to thaw her. If the genre is an action adventure one, all these things can have an operational impact. Otherwise they can have social or practical consequences. | 1 | 7,036 | 4 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y60l1 | h1y9vne | 1,623,834,144 | 1,623,837,759 | 1 | 4 | Take a trope and subvert it. Maybe the Ice Queen crumbles at the smell of cake and it ends up being her achilles heel. Maybe the overprotective parent/Karen has a deeper reason for this and needs to learn how to use her powers for good. My favourite example from my own work was a rather daffy old man who had been rejected from the church because he wasn't zealous enough and who was an older bachelor whose sweetheart had chosen his brother over him. Not quite the old mentor archetype, but more the studious professor type dispensing wisdom and platitudes but not actually getting his hands dirty in a fight. His arc was about gaining confidence and finding out that he was actually the incarnation of an angel, who in my setting come into the world not to deprive humanity of agency and free will by fighting their battles for them, but to protect and nurture the vulnerable in difficult situations and protect the absolute innocent from those fighting the battles. In the first drafts of the book, he actually rescues the protagonist; in other drafts the protagonist should probably rescue himself, but the concept took the idea of a shy man whose compassion was supernatural in purpose. Not knowing of his earthly mission was crucial in order to make sure his humility remained intact, but finding out at this point in his life effectively allowed him to steer other more important events in the right direction. | You cannot avoid tropes, you can only use old tropes(most common), reinterpret old tropes or create new tropes (rarest). Using tropes in writing is not bad. Trying to write while avoiding tropes would be like trying to build a skyscraper while trying to avoid using building materials. | 0 | 3,615 | 4 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1y0tml | h1x6bsz | 1,623,829,207 | 1,623,809,013 | 3 | 2 | I try to create human scale characters and place them in a much biger context. It allows me to talk about more personal problems that everybody could face, and link it to the story in order to make the résolution of the problem more epic | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | 1 | 20,194 | 1.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1z45b4 | h1x6bsz | 1,623,855,771 | 1,623,809,013 | 3 | 2 | Tropes, techniques, story elements, and words are all tools -- expressive concepts encapsulated into conversational algebraic symbols. Use tools to illustrate your characters as you carry the audience along their story. Tweaking and polishing which tools you use, and how you use those tools, that's all up to you. | Honestly add depth ask what specific and unique set of events created this person. And don't make them one dimensional. Like I remember finding out some I knew was in the army special forces. And he is easily the nicest guy I know with a great sense of humor. Furthermore he was really humble and doesn't talk about it unless you ask and even then he doesn't boast about it. Where as in most fiction especially video games guys like that are portrayed as cold tough as nails stoics. And maybe he is tough nails or was tough as nails when he was active. But most people tend to act differently depending on the environment and situation. Hence don't let your character be one dimensional. Like with the ice queen trope for example is she really cold or is she just cold when she's working because it's necessary. Like does she literally never smile. There are people who bring work home with them and that's a characteristic one could always dive deeper into. But even alot of people we widely agree are horrible human beings act differently when they're at home. Like I saw a documentary about the Cambodian Genocide and the son of a guy who was responsible for possibly thousands of tortures and executions could not believe his father would do such a thing. Most likely the father did not go home and talk about how he spent the whole day torturing and murdering people for the Pol Pot. He probably lied about it. That's a dynamic character right there for a really dark story granted. So just ask yourself questions like what would my character do in this situation that probably has nothing to do with the actual story. | 1 | 46,758 | 1.5 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1z45b4 | h1y2gj9 | 1,623,855,771 | 1,623,830,723 | 3 | 1 | Tropes, techniques, story elements, and words are all tools -- expressive concepts encapsulated into conversational algebraic symbols. Use tools to illustrate your characters as you carry the audience along their story. Tweaking and polishing which tools you use, and how you use those tools, that's all up to you. | I think part of the problem is that these types are often portrayed without consequences. A good rule of the thumb is that all significant relationships are defined by conflict. So, for example, "Fiery Woman" becomes much more interesting when "Conflicted Villain" has a change of heart and joins Team Good. Things could go really badly wrong if she loses her temper with him. "Accent" is actually super articulate in their own language, and their tragic difficulty in communicating with nuance in the common language keeps accidentally crushing "Shy Sister", who in turn becomes increasingly erratic. "Ice Queen" is really just an introvert, and reacts badly to the attempts of "Honest Big Guy" to thaw her. If the genre is an action adventure one, all these things can have an operational impact. Otherwise they can have social or practical consequences. | 1 | 25,048 | 3 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1z45b4 | h1y60l1 | 1,623,855,771 | 1,623,834,144 | 3 | 1 | Tropes, techniques, story elements, and words are all tools -- expressive concepts encapsulated into conversational algebraic symbols. Use tools to illustrate your characters as you carry the audience along their story. Tweaking and polishing which tools you use, and how you use those tools, that's all up to you. | Take a trope and subvert it. Maybe the Ice Queen crumbles at the smell of cake and it ends up being her achilles heel. Maybe the overprotective parent/Karen has a deeper reason for this and needs to learn how to use her powers for good. My favourite example from my own work was a rather daffy old man who had been rejected from the church because he wasn't zealous enough and who was an older bachelor whose sweetheart had chosen his brother over him. Not quite the old mentor archetype, but more the studious professor type dispensing wisdom and platitudes but not actually getting his hands dirty in a fight. His arc was about gaining confidence and finding out that he was actually the incarnation of an angel, who in my setting come into the world not to deprive humanity of agency and free will by fighting their battles for them, but to protect and nurture the vulnerable in difficult situations and protect the absolute innocent from those fighting the battles. In the first drafts of the book, he actually rescues the protagonist; in other drafts the protagonist should probably rescue himself, but the concept took the idea of a shy man whose compassion was supernatural in purpose. Not knowing of his earthly mission was crucial in order to make sure his humility remained intact, but finding out at this point in his life effectively allowed him to steer other more important events in the right direction. | 1 | 21,627 | 3 | ||
o0sj3u | writing_train | 0.84 | How do you avoid tropes and write memorable characters? So I have noticed that a lot of the stories I read have a bad habit of using similar characters, and they usually always fall into certain criteria where, after only knowing them for a short time, you will be like "oh, so its that type of character". I used to write a lot before I began to read a lot more than I write, and I noticed that I made a lot of these same character types without even knowing it. Some of the types are as follows: Ice Queen: Cold and emotionless outwardly, but might have a strong sense of justice of a soft spot for certain things/people. Usually has ice type powers in a fantasy setting. Entitled Young Master: Child born into a lot of power, spoiled rotten by a doting father or mother and often gets into overblown conflicts with the MC over trivial situations. For example, MC bumps into him so he asks the MC to kneel and beg him for forgiveness, and when that doesn't happen he does all he can to kill the MC. Shy or Bubbly Younger Sister character: Doesn't actually have to be a sister, but is either excessively shy or happy all the time and usually contributes nothing to the actual story other than being a mascot or comic relief. Overprotective Parent: Often paired with the Entitled Young Master, their child can do no wrong and if you even look at them wrong then they, like their child, will stop at nothing to have you killed. Basically a Karen with actual power. Judgemental Side Character: Characters that judge and underestimate the MC because of his age or how he looks, usually just as a set up for a moment of comic relief when the MC proves that they are idiots or as a setup for conflict. This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't painfully overused like it is. Ride or Die Friend: Friend introduced early on who is 100% loyal to their friend, the MC. In reality, a lot of your friends in real life would sell you out for a bag of skittles. These friends are also usually used as nothing else but tools to show how far the MC has come at any point in the story. Fiery Woman: Woman quick to anger, will fight anyone and anything that she doesn't like the look of and will never give you a chance to explain yourself. Usually good natured overall. Honest Big Guy: A large and strong guy with a simple mind and a big heart, I dont mind this type that much. Conflicted Villain: Character introduced as a villain who has an internal conflict and sometimes a change of heart due to one sentence the MC said after defeating him once that points out an obviously hypocritical part of whatever type of organization or faith they follow. OP Student: Usually someone the MC finds and takes under their wing who has some kind of broken ability that makes it feel like they should be the MC instead. Any kind of Dere: Yandere, tsundere, kuudere, himedere, all the dere. Accent: Character speaks in a strange way for no other reason than to be unique in the sea of boring characters. These are just a few types, but while they are overused, they do have their own places in a story. I just want a good way that I can avoid my characters being so predictable so that I don't get caught using the same 20 character types again and again. How can I give a character a more realistic personality without them being boring? Because, lets face it, a lot of 'normal' people are super boring to write and read. I want to write a character that will leave an impression, not be forgotten once someone moves on to the next story. | h1z45b4 | h1yt4be | 1,623,855,771 | 1,623,850,669 | 3 | 1 | Tropes, techniques, story elements, and words are all tools -- expressive concepts encapsulated into conversational algebraic symbols. Use tools to illustrate your characters as you carry the audience along their story. Tweaking and polishing which tools you use, and how you use those tools, that's all up to you. | just commenting so I remember to read this later | 1 | 5,102 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjvxqr2 | gjvzrhh | 1,611,099,297 | 1,611,100,343 | 3 | 5 | 1500. Getting to 750 is easy. Getting to 1200 is hell. Then I usually end up with 1550 or so | I literally shoot for "as many as I can get out that day" and try not to worry about the actual number. When I worry about the actual number, it adds a layer of stress that doesn't help me get to any particular goal. So instead, I aim for a feeling, and that has seen me get upwards of 2k done in a day, now and then. And yes, sometimes I get effectively zero, or just a few hundred, or less than a thousand, yada yada yada. I also try to be mindful of all of the writing that goes on that *isn't* the "word count" writing, but is necessary for it. If I spend a day not actually getting book-writin' done, but make several pages of notes that will become book-writin' ? That's an accomplishment that should not be discounted, I say. But that's just me. | 0 | 1,046 | 1.666667 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjvzrhh | gjvz186 | 1,611,100,343 | 1,611,099,965 | 5 | 3 | I literally shoot for "as many as I can get out that day" and try not to worry about the actual number. When I worry about the actual number, it adds a layer of stress that doesn't help me get to any particular goal. So instead, I aim for a feeling, and that has seen me get upwards of 2k done in a day, now and then. And yes, sometimes I get effectively zero, or just a few hundred, or less than a thousand, yada yada yada. I also try to be mindful of all of the writing that goes on that *isn't* the "word count" writing, but is necessary for it. If I spend a day not actually getting book-writin' done, but make several pages of notes that will become book-writin' ? That's an accomplishment that should not be discounted, I say. But that's just me. | I like to set the goal at 500, and then if inspiration hits then I'll write until I cant get anything else out | 1 | 378 | 1.666667 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjvxqr2 | gjw1mam | 1,611,099,297 | 1,611,101,313 | 3 | 4 | 1500. Getting to 750 is easy. Getting to 1200 is hell. Then I usually end up with 1550 or so | 150. 250 is awesome. More than 400, though, and I start feeling like it's too much. | 0 | 2,016 | 1.333333 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjw1mam | gjvz186 | 1,611,101,313 | 1,611,099,965 | 4 | 3 | 150. 250 is awesome. More than 400, though, and I start feeling like it's too much. | I like to set the goal at 500, and then if inspiration hits then I'll write until I cant get anything else out | 1 | 1,348 | 1.333333 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjw1mam | gjw1f1j | 1,611,101,313 | 1,611,101,208 | 4 | 3 | 150. 250 is awesome. More than 400, though, and I start feeling like it's too much. | If I'm writing my first draft, my words on paper draft, I shoot for 2,000 words. 1,500 is a bad day. 3,000+ is good. 4,000 is great though I usually start getting brain fatigue at this point so the quality may start to suffer. I recently finished the ending to my book at churned out 6,400 words over 4 hours. But I'll probably have to rewrite large chunks of it. I just wanted it down on paper. | 1 | 105 | 1.333333 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjw8im3 | gjw7e35 | 1,611,104,944 | 1,611,104,341 | 3 | 1 | I write 50 per day and redraft/edit there and then. | My goal is "as many as I can get in a day." I'm generally a pretty fast writer, but I also have a chronic illness, so some days I'm lucky to get anything in. Life happens. | 1 | 603 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjw7e35 | gjwxjie | 1,611,104,341 | 1,611,119,042 | 1 | 3 | My goal is "as many as I can get in a day." I'm generally a pretty fast writer, but I also have a chronic illness, so some days I'm lucky to get anything in. Life happens. | 150-200, although recently, I've been hitting around 300 | 0 | 14,701 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjwxjie | gjwa0kf | 1,611,119,042 | 1,611,105,741 | 3 | 1 | 150-200, although recently, I've been hitting around 300 | Generally 600 but right now I'm in a rut from world building | 1 | 13,301 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjwxjie | gjwhyck | 1,611,119,042 | 1,611,109,994 | 3 | 1 | 150-200, although recently, I've been hitting around 300 | 2k on the book I’m writing, 2k on unrelated articles | 1 | 9,048 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjwxjie | gjwj4z0 | 1,611,119,042 | 1,611,110,622 | 3 | 1 | 150-200, although recently, I've been hitting around 300 | For me it depends on my "flow". The first hour is slow. I usually get about 300 words done, then the second and third hour is super productive! At the 4th hour I tend to slow down. I'm never writing more than 4 hours at once. Usually I get around 2000 - 3000 words done in that time span. | 1 | 8,420 | 3 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjx24z2 | gjw7e35 | 1,611,122,300 | 1,611,104,341 | 2 | 1 | Consistency always beats speed. 500 words a day beats 3000 once in 2 years | My goal is "as many as I can get in a day." I'm generally a pretty fast writer, but I also have a chronic illness, so some days I'm lucky to get anything in. Life happens. | 1 | 17,959 | 2 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjx24z2 | gjwa0kf | 1,611,122,300 | 1,611,105,741 | 2 | 1 | Consistency always beats speed. 500 words a day beats 3000 once in 2 years | Generally 600 but right now I'm in a rut from world building | 1 | 16,559 | 2 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjwhyck | gjx24z2 | 1,611,109,994 | 1,611,122,300 | 1 | 2 | 2k on the book I’m writing, 2k on unrelated articles | Consistency always beats speed. 500 words a day beats 3000 once in 2 years | 0 | 12,306 | 2 | ||
l0w5qv | writing_train | 1 | How Many Words Do You Guys shoot for a day? I usually go for 500 or more but lately I feel like that's just not enough. I feel like my progress is so slow and sluggish. What do you guys go for? | gjx24z2 | gjwj4z0 | 1,611,122,300 | 1,611,110,622 | 2 | 1 | Consistency always beats speed. 500 words a day beats 3000 once in 2 years | For me it depends on my "flow". The first hour is slow. I usually get about 300 words done, then the second and third hour is super productive! At the 4th hour I tend to slow down. I'm never writing more than 4 hours at once. Usually I get around 2000 - 3000 words done in that time span. | 1 | 11,678 | 2 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7dypn7 | i7e3cyt | 1,651,724,746 | 1,651,727,682 | 3 | 4 | Like, *completely* restart and rewrite everything? I’ve only done that once that I recall. Normally I write my first draft, editing and revising as I go along so it’s in relatively good shape by the time I’m finished. Then I’ll get feedback and do a round of revisions and edits. If I’m happy with it I stop there and if I’m still not quite pleased I get feedback again, rinse and repeat. I typically only go through one or two feedback/revision cycles, though I’ve done more in the past on rare occasions. Fwiw I write short fiction and I feel like with a short story there comes a point where it gets overworked if you fiddle with it too much and it loses its charm. | You mean second drafts? Lol | 0 | 2,936 | 1.333333 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7e6iaa | i7dypn7 | 1,651,729,864 | 1,651,724,746 | 5 | 3 | I feel like the answer varies widely between writers and depending on your definition of "restart" in this context. I, for one, have restarted a select few of my projects a handful of times each, but each restart had a strong reason behind it. One thing's for sure, though. The more I've worked on writing and developed my style, the less I've found myself needing to restart my stories. Take these for contrast: Project 1: my first book attempt, currently archived for later use when I can decide what to do with it. The first restart was because I completely changed the antagonist's characterization and decided to make him more an anti-hero. The second restart was because after 2 years of taking writing seriously, I swapped my style from first to third person. All of my active projects at the time were rewritten to reflect this change. All in all, I restarted this one a total of 7-8 times (lost count eventually) before I eventually just gave up and archived it. Project 2: my current intended debut novel, almost a full decade since Project 1. I had my beginning. I had my ending. The whole thing felt right, but I couldn't get the middle nailed down. It didn't make sense, and I couldn't figure out how to get from Point A to Point B and it not involve a deus ex machina or feel like the ending was forced and unsatisfying. That's when I knew I needed to restart, because as you've probably heard, a problem with act 2 is really just an act 1 problem in disguise. I realized it was turning into a high fantasy political thriller, and political thrillers have never been my genre. I completely rebooted, scrapping the original plot and keeping only characters. It's now turning into the high fantasy adventure I was hoping for, and I am much more confident in this draft than the last several. Total restarts: 1. Hope this helps. And really, restarting my early projects helped me get to where I am today. It's all just more practice. Write what you need to write however many times you need to write it. And read a lot. Trust me. | Like, *completely* restart and rewrite everything? I’ve only done that once that I recall. Normally I write my first draft, editing and revising as I go along so it’s in relatively good shape by the time I’m finished. Then I’ll get feedback and do a round of revisions and edits. If I’m happy with it I stop there and if I’m still not quite pleased I get feedback again, rinse and repeat. I typically only go through one or two feedback/revision cycles, though I’ve done more in the past on rare occasions. Fwiw I write short fiction and I feel like with a short story there comes a point where it gets overworked if you fiddle with it too much and it loses its charm. | 1 | 5,118 | 1.666667 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7e6iaa | i7e3cyt | 1,651,729,864 | 1,651,727,682 | 5 | 4 | I feel like the answer varies widely between writers and depending on your definition of "restart" in this context. I, for one, have restarted a select few of my projects a handful of times each, but each restart had a strong reason behind it. One thing's for sure, though. The more I've worked on writing and developed my style, the less I've found myself needing to restart my stories. Take these for contrast: Project 1: my first book attempt, currently archived for later use when I can decide what to do with it. The first restart was because I completely changed the antagonist's characterization and decided to make him more an anti-hero. The second restart was because after 2 years of taking writing seriously, I swapped my style from first to third person. All of my active projects at the time were rewritten to reflect this change. All in all, I restarted this one a total of 7-8 times (lost count eventually) before I eventually just gave up and archived it. Project 2: my current intended debut novel, almost a full decade since Project 1. I had my beginning. I had my ending. The whole thing felt right, but I couldn't get the middle nailed down. It didn't make sense, and I couldn't figure out how to get from Point A to Point B and it not involve a deus ex machina or feel like the ending was forced and unsatisfying. That's when I knew I needed to restart, because as you've probably heard, a problem with act 2 is really just an act 1 problem in disguise. I realized it was turning into a high fantasy political thriller, and political thrillers have never been my genre. I completely rebooted, scrapping the original plot and keeping only characters. It's now turning into the high fantasy adventure I was hoping for, and I am much more confident in this draft than the last several. Total restarts: 1. Hope this helps. And really, restarting my early projects helped me get to where I am today. It's all just more practice. Write what you need to write however many times you need to write it. And read a lot. Trust me. | You mean second drafts? Lol | 1 | 2,182 | 1.25 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7fir6n | i7efvq7 | 1,651,761,569 | 1,651,737,411 | 3 | 2 | At least 15,000 times. 😂 | Too many | 1 | 24,158 | 1.5 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7fir6n | i7eisa2 | 1,651,761,569 | 1,651,740,041 | 3 | 1 | At least 15,000 times. 😂 | I don't. Once a scene is written, it's written. I can fix a thing here or there if needed, and sometimes a given scene can be completely deleted from the final draft, but I never completely rewrite a scene, let alone a whole story. | 1 | 21,528 | 3 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7ejidp | i7fir6n | 1,651,740,697 | 1,651,761,569 | 1 | 3 | I’ve stopped rewriting projects, which I assume is what you are talking about. This is because rewriting the whole thing just means you don’t know what is wrong with a story, and you are likely to just re do the same problems again. Before editing you need to know what the problems actually are, which you can then try to improve. | At least 15,000 times. 😂 | 0 | 20,872 | 3 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7fsepy | i7eisa2 | 1,651,765,425 | 1,651,740,041 | 2 | 1 | I had one that I restarted pretty much every time I looked at it. In the end I had to accept it wasn't going to happen. Loved the idea. Loved the characters. But it wasn't going to come together in a way I found acceptable. So I put the research folder aside. Now some of the ideas I had for that book will make its way into other stories I write. Sometimes a story can work better with a different cast though. Maybe try changing the characters? There's one other than I 'tore up' 50k words in and started from scratch. That one needed a completely different start. Originally I started introducing the characters in a normal way and getting them established. But it wasn't working. The first arc threw off the beat it needed to have and I was drowning the reader in exposition. I didn't know how to get around it. Eventually realised I didn't need to start that way. It was ok for my readers to not know a fucking thing about my characters and discover it through the environment. And that the things they didn't discover through the environment were not really necessary for them to know. | I don't. Once a scene is written, it's written. I can fix a thing here or there if needed, and sometimes a given scene can be completely deleted from the final draft, but I never completely rewrite a scene, let alone a whole story. | 1 | 25,384 | 2 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7ejidp | i7fsepy | 1,651,740,697 | 1,651,765,425 | 1 | 2 | I’ve stopped rewriting projects, which I assume is what you are talking about. This is because rewriting the whole thing just means you don’t know what is wrong with a story, and you are likely to just re do the same problems again. Before editing you need to know what the problems actually are, which you can then try to improve. | I had one that I restarted pretty much every time I looked at it. In the end I had to accept it wasn't going to happen. Loved the idea. Loved the characters. But it wasn't going to come together in a way I found acceptable. So I put the research folder aside. Now some of the ideas I had for that book will make its way into other stories I write. Sometimes a story can work better with a different cast though. Maybe try changing the characters? There's one other than I 'tore up' 50k words in and started from scratch. That one needed a completely different start. Originally I started introducing the characters in a normal way and getting them established. But it wasn't working. The first arc threw off the beat it needed to have and I was drowning the reader in exposition. I didn't know how to get around it. Eventually realised I didn't need to start that way. It was ok for my readers to not know a fucking thing about my characters and discover it through the environment. And that the things they didn't discover through the environment were not really necessary for them to know. | 0 | 24,728 | 2 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7eisa2 | i7gawx3 | 1,651,740,041 | 1,651,773,032 | 1 | 2 | I don't. Once a scene is written, it's written. I can fix a thing here or there if needed, and sometimes a given scene can be completely deleted from the final draft, but I never completely rewrite a scene, let alone a whole story. | How long is the story, what are you restarting, and why are you restarting it? I haven't written much in the way of short stories in a while, but I've written a fair amount of sketches and.... tbh, mostly I don't stop and restart. Either I stop, usually because I realize that something isn't working but sometimes it just doesn't feel right and I stop anyway, or I ignore the voice that says something's wrong and plow through. When I do the latter, I find that a lot of the time the voice that was telling me something's wrong comes out in the sketch but it becomes a thing I can fix - for instance, a character doesn't really seem to have a good "want" and so they feel like they're just furniture. Also, I think especially if you're writing shorter work and aren't plotting / writing character sketches, etc., sometimes you just have to write some stuff out that you know won't be in the final draft but is important for your own understanding. Even if you delete it, that's not wasted writing any more than early drafts are "wasted" because later drafts exist. Just let yourself write and, especially on earlier drafts, if you feel the need to go into something into too-great detail, just allow yourself to do so and know that if it doesn't work you can always axe it later on (unless you're Stephen King, in which case you leave everything in). | 0 | 32,991 | 2 | ||
uip0u3 | writing_train | 0.84 | How many times do you restart a story usually So, as said in the title, I just want to know how many times you restart a story, because I’ve restarted mine a lot. | i7gawx3 | i7ejidp | 1,651,773,032 | 1,651,740,697 | 2 | 1 | How long is the story, what are you restarting, and why are you restarting it? I haven't written much in the way of short stories in a while, but I've written a fair amount of sketches and.... tbh, mostly I don't stop and restart. Either I stop, usually because I realize that something isn't working but sometimes it just doesn't feel right and I stop anyway, or I ignore the voice that says something's wrong and plow through. When I do the latter, I find that a lot of the time the voice that was telling me something's wrong comes out in the sketch but it becomes a thing I can fix - for instance, a character doesn't really seem to have a good "want" and so they feel like they're just furniture. Also, I think especially if you're writing shorter work and aren't plotting / writing character sketches, etc., sometimes you just have to write some stuff out that you know won't be in the final draft but is important for your own understanding. Even if you delete it, that's not wasted writing any more than early drafts are "wasted" because later drafts exist. Just let yourself write and, especially on earlier drafts, if you feel the need to go into something into too-great detail, just allow yourself to do so and know that if it doesn't work you can always axe it later on (unless you're Stephen King, in which case you leave everything in). | I’ve stopped rewriting projects, which I assume is what you are talking about. This is because rewriting the whole thing just means you don’t know what is wrong with a story, and you are likely to just re do the same problems again. Before editing you need to know what the problems actually are, which you can then try to improve. | 1 | 32,335 | 2 | ||
z6d4kc | writing_train | 0.75 | How to find the energy to write while being totally burned out from life This is my first post here after lurking for quite some time (often by Googling things and finding threads that would lead me here), and unfortunately it's one of those bleak ones, but at the moment I guess I'm in what is less of a state of depression, and more of a constant, endless lethargy. I work two jobs that I hate after dropping out of university and am now forced to support myself and my mother who can't work due to health reasons, and have found it impossible for most of this year to find not only the time, but the energy to write. I'm working on my first novel, and it is truly my passion project. It's existed in some form since I was about fifteen \[I am now twenty-three\], but I only started drafting it formally last year. As I write this I'm reflecting on this summer, and last year, when I had just one part time job and a student loan, and lots of free time and sunlight in my room and a ton of motivation to get things done, but I have no idea - realistically - how to write on a daily basis. I'm also looking for a full time job currently, and it's unfathomable to me how anyone manages to write while working forty hours a week - and I only work twenty five right now. I'm hoping that this is partially seasonal, but deep down I have this feeling that this is always how my life is going to be, and it sucks, and I guess I just need reassurance, or advice, or something. I spend my entire day thinking about my characters, hosting conversations between them in my head while I work, imagining new scenes and scenarios and things to bridge things together, but by the time I get home and have nowhere else to go for the day, I'm exhausted, and resign myself to sit in front of some youtube video I've seen a million times before - just to beat myself up about being a failure. I recently talked myself into abandoning my current project, and starting something else, as I thought that it would help to give myself a fresh environment and characters, but I couldn't make them stick either - and would much prefer to continue with something I am much deeper into developing. Sorry if this is a little morose. Any advice appreciated. | iy0ucct | iy0wnhr | 1,669,586,646 | 1,669,587,631 | 4 | 8 | If writing is what you want then don't be a bitch about it, force it, embrace the suck and write shit. Also don't you dare to abandon your current project just because you want something fresh. If you want that "fresh environment", clean your room, go run, take a hot shower, get yourself a haircut, buy new clothes, whatever... just finish the fucking thing. Starting other stuff will not give you that fresh feeling, on the contrary, it will only give rise to more unfinished shit. If you are exhausted try writing 5 minutes a day, i guarantee you that most of the time you will end up spending more time than that. Control the urgency, it's a long process. Write. It will be glorious when you finish it. | Firstly, you're not a failure. You're frustratingly typical, this happens to everyone. Secondly, this post makes it seem like you have some underlying issues that strangers on a forum about writing aren't equipped to handle. If i had to give overarching advice, I'd say to get a therapist, get a gym membership, and (to the best of your ability) get a job that allows you to live as comfortably as possible. Thirdly, listen to that other guy and don't you dare touch a new project. Accept that whatever you write will be garbage, wear that confidence like a VIP badge, and finish your current project. Then put it away, start on a new project, and revisit this one in a few months so you can start fixing it to be the best version of itself. Also, for what it's worth, this post was 400 words. Next time, spend your free time writing 400 words of your novel instead of 400 words of a reddit post. It'll add up. | 0 | 985 | 2 | ||
vml8uf | writing_train | 0.83 | A question for novelists who have utilised writing groups and writing companions: how do you make the most out of the process? How have you approached working with/sharing with/critiquing with others to get the most out of the experience. Especially when it's a WIP so you do not want to treat it as a finished draft that needs editing. How do you approach it where you're not just critiquing aspects that will all be cleared up in "post"? Generally not asking if you think writing groups/companions are helpful or not as a whole. I am aware some people do not believe in their usefulness but am also aware that others have used them with success. | ie1mfre | ie1nbmr | 1,656,417,672 | 1,656,418,193 | 6 | 7 | 1. Ask the writer what kind of feedback they are looking for: overall response, plot, voice, etc. Do not correct grammar in someone's first draft, for example. 2. Try not to criticize works in genres that you actively dislike. Example: I hate horror. Rather than giving negative feedback about horror stories, it's best I don't critique them, as I don't have anything helpful to offer. It's OK to recuse yourself if you can't be neutral. 3. Make your criticism constructive, meaning something the writer can build off of. If part of the manuscript is confusing or slow, then kindly explain why, and how it might be better. 4. For every critical remark, try to find a few things you genuinely liked, and leave positive comments. 5. When receiving criticism, try not to get defensive. You don't have to make changes to your story. 6. If only one person on your group makes a comment, they might be off. But if several people see the same problem, you may want to listen, especially if those people write in the same genre that you do. 7. When phrasing criticism, ask yourself the classic questions before you say anything. Is your critique kind? Is it true? Is it useful? Is it necessary? | - Be clear with what feedback you are looking for on your work. - Give feedback according to what the author of the piece is looking for. - Establish a structure of a critique sandwich for the group as a whole (good thing, thing that needs improvement, another good thing). - The person receiving critique doesn’t get to defend or explain the work until all the critique has been given. - If someone’s feedback is out of line on someone else’s work (e.g. personal attacks or extrapolations), speak up. - If someone is repeatedly toxic, disinvite them. | 0 | 521 | 1.166667 | ||
vml8uf | writing_train | 0.83 | A question for novelists who have utilised writing groups and writing companions: how do you make the most out of the process? How have you approached working with/sharing with/critiquing with others to get the most out of the experience. Especially when it's a WIP so you do not want to treat it as a finished draft that needs editing. How do you approach it where you're not just critiquing aspects that will all be cleared up in "post"? Generally not asking if you think writing groups/companions are helpful or not as a whole. I am aware some people do not believe in their usefulness but am also aware that others have used them with success. | ie2a970 | ie1pz0f | 1,656,428,966 | 1,656,419,690 | 2 | 1 | >How do you approach it where you're not just critiquing aspects that will all be cleared up in "post"? I actually think this can be valuable because it can: * \-tell me I'm on the right path if the things they mention are things I was already planning on implementing * help put me on the right path if they mention things I hadn't actually considered yet * or if the feedback directly contradicts what I'd intended to do, I can think about that as well. And you can ask for things like "no line edits/grammar corrections," or whatever it is that you're getting that you don't actually want yet. Edit: Also, if you're working closely with one person, keep in mind that your crit will improve as you get used to each others' processes, needs, and styles. | My writing partner has changed my life. I honestly don’t think I could have finished the revisions and gotten my book agent ready without her. We had to build up a lot of trust to be able to effectively workshop together. We started with the rules below. After six months, we loosened up a bit and gave each other the, “I trust you, tell me when you have an idea on how to fix the chapter, no matter how stupid is might be,” and then are never insulted if the writer doesn’t use our idea. After gaining a lot of trust, we started reading our first drafts out loud to each other and then later would read the edited version. This helped the writer feel accomplished in how well the editing process went and helped encourage the “reader” that bad drafts are just a part of the process. Guidelines for the Workshoper: Be descriptive, not prescriptive. Focus on ‘I’ statements that showcase your reaction rather than telling the WSee what they should or should not do. For example, “I was bored during this section,” is helpful feedback that follows this guideline. “You should add a fight scene to make it more interesting,” is not helpful feedback and goes against this guideline. When the WSee prompts the group for help brainstorming or asks for advice to help them solve a problem, focus on helping make their idea/vision for X work. Do not suggest your own idea or what you would do to change their story to ‘make it better’. It is mutually agreed that if the WSee decides not to use ideas or apply advice given by the group that no one will be offended. It is their right to accept, refuse, or alter whatever is given to them. Guidelines for the Workshopee: Do not try to ‘defend’ your work when receiving criticism or feedback from others. Their reactions are valid and they are less likely to be willing to provide feedback in the future if you try to present their reactions as invalid. Remember that one opinion is not universal. Not every reader/WSer will have the same reaction to your work. Be considerate when providing work for review. Consider limiting the amount of content you send per session to make reviewing your content prior to the next session easily attainable. | 1 | 9,276 | 2 | ||
tnao51 | writing_train | 0.9 | How did you get your first article published? I've been writing in a marketing capacity for a while, but have never officially gotten anything published—most of my work has been content development for clients. For those who write for credible sources or have been published by credible sources, how did you go about getting your first article published? | i228r99 | i24ovgw | 1,648,214,639 | 1,648,250,852 | 1 | 2 | I got hired to be a reporter for a local newspaper. Easy. :D You would get your first sale by submitting to the proper places, which can take years of effort. If you have some cred, as you seem to, you might be able to network yourself into an article. | I started off in games journalism. Initially, I was writing for volunteer sites and small hobby publications. I wanted to break into bigger places. Around the same time, in college, I was interning at a local political lobbyist organization. They had access to this media database that had the contact info for basically every major publication in America, even stuff far removed from politics. One day when I had nothing better to do, I used the the database to pull up the info for a bunch of the major gaming publications I was interested in. Low and behold, I had the direct email addresses and office phone numbers for a bunch of editors. Over the next several weeks I started bypassing the “submissions” forms and started directing pitches straight to the editors. My big break was at IGN. I got on the phone with an editor who asked me to send over some samples and then hooked me up with some work writing game guides. I was terrible at that work, but I was able to use that work to segue into features, reviews, news writing, etc at a range of professional level publications. I still have a copy of GamePro framed on my wall - the issue where I had a feature published. My career in the games industry never grew that big (I was always a small player compared to some) and fizzled our after about a decade, but that’s how I did it! | 0 | 36,213 | 2 | ||
tnao51 | writing_train | 0.9 | How did you get your first article published? I've been writing in a marketing capacity for a while, but have never officially gotten anything published—most of my work has been content development for clients. For those who write for credible sources or have been published by credible sources, how did you go about getting your first article published? | i22q5q2 | i24ovgw | 1,648,221,942 | 1,648,250,852 | 1 | 2 | I got really lucky, I guess - wrote a piece simply because I was interested in the topic, then cold-emailed a site that had similar articles and asked if they wanted to publish it, which they did. | I started off in games journalism. Initially, I was writing for volunteer sites and small hobby publications. I wanted to break into bigger places. Around the same time, in college, I was interning at a local political lobbyist organization. They had access to this media database that had the contact info for basically every major publication in America, even stuff far removed from politics. One day when I had nothing better to do, I used the the database to pull up the info for a bunch of the major gaming publications I was interested in. Low and behold, I had the direct email addresses and office phone numbers for a bunch of editors. Over the next several weeks I started bypassing the “submissions” forms and started directing pitches straight to the editors. My big break was at IGN. I got on the phone with an editor who asked me to send over some samples and then hooked me up with some work writing game guides. I was terrible at that work, but I was able to use that work to segue into features, reviews, news writing, etc at a range of professional level publications. I still have a copy of GamePro framed on my wall - the issue where I had a feature published. My career in the games industry never grew that big (I was always a small player compared to some) and fizzled our after about a decade, but that’s how I did it! | 0 | 28,910 | 2 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | imzyev9 | imzw0gn | 1,662,253,362 | 1,662,252,211 | 47 | 36 | Become an Alpha Reader. You go through the roughest draft (playing as both a reader and an editor) of another writers work and give edit suggestions, feedback, and help fix mistakes they may miss. Once I started doing that, I also started noticing a lot of the mistakes I make as a writer. There were things I would do while writing that I would hate to see in other writer’s work. It genuinely made me recognize where I had room for improvement in my own work. I became one through Tiktok. An author was asking for volunteers and I signed up. It’s usually free work, but you can create a business from it once you build up clientele. I really fucking enjoy it. As far as dialogue goes, here is my best advice: •Forget everything else and write a screenplay for your chapters. Drop the fluff, the setting, the exposition. Just write a crude version of your chapters in the form of a screenplay. (Just like those AI Generated screenplays of movies or tv shows that are all over the internet, for reference). •Once you’ve done that, record yourself reading the dialogue out loud while acting it as your characters. Seriously, pull out all the stops on your acting. The facial expressions, the hand movements, let them all come out naturally as the character takes over your body. Don’t worry about tripping up or stumbling on your words. You want that. •Now play the video back to yourself. You’re going to cringe. It’s inevitable, but necessary. •Mark down every time you tripped on the dialogue. That probably means the words don’t flow and need to be edited until they do. •Mark every facial expression, hand gesture, little facial twitch, etc. Mark down every emotion that you played. You’ll need both of these for your dialogue tags. This will also help you fix any dialogue that reads in the wrong tone than you meant it to. Sometimes we write things thinking it sounds one way, but when read out loud it comes off in a different tone than expected. •Now fix any dialogue that you need to, and re-record yourself. Basically repeat the process until you’re satisfied with your dialogue. •Once you’re satisfied, you can begin on the fluff. Start adding in that exposition, the internal monologues, all that jazz. It’s so much easier at this point. | I used to copy down excerpts of stories I loved, word for word, then rewrite them in my own style so I could learn A) what made the original so good and B) how I could set my own writing apart. I feel it actually made a difference, and it was fun, too. | 1 | 1,151 | 1.305556 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | imzyev9 | imzxrcn | 1,662,253,362 | 1,662,253,046 | 47 | 25 | Become an Alpha Reader. You go through the roughest draft (playing as both a reader and an editor) of another writers work and give edit suggestions, feedback, and help fix mistakes they may miss. Once I started doing that, I also started noticing a lot of the mistakes I make as a writer. There were things I would do while writing that I would hate to see in other writer’s work. It genuinely made me recognize where I had room for improvement in my own work. I became one through Tiktok. An author was asking for volunteers and I signed up. It’s usually free work, but you can create a business from it once you build up clientele. I really fucking enjoy it. As far as dialogue goes, here is my best advice: •Forget everything else and write a screenplay for your chapters. Drop the fluff, the setting, the exposition. Just write a crude version of your chapters in the form of a screenplay. (Just like those AI Generated screenplays of movies or tv shows that are all over the internet, for reference). •Once you’ve done that, record yourself reading the dialogue out loud while acting it as your characters. Seriously, pull out all the stops on your acting. The facial expressions, the hand movements, let them all come out naturally as the character takes over your body. Don’t worry about tripping up or stumbling on your words. You want that. •Now play the video back to yourself. You’re going to cringe. It’s inevitable, but necessary. •Mark down every time you tripped on the dialogue. That probably means the words don’t flow and need to be edited until they do. •Mark every facial expression, hand gesture, little facial twitch, etc. Mark down every emotion that you played. You’ll need both of these for your dialogue tags. This will also help you fix any dialogue that reads in the wrong tone than you meant it to. Sometimes we write things thinking it sounds one way, but when read out loud it comes off in a different tone than expected. •Now fix any dialogue that you need to, and re-record yourself. Basically repeat the process until you’re satisfied with your dialogue. •Once you’re satisfied, you can begin on the fluff. Start adding in that exposition, the internal monologues, all that jazz. It’s so much easier at this point. | Read a LOT (or listen to audiobooks). Read a lot of different authors, genres and styles. Pay attention to good and bad writing, it will start to formulate in your mind what sounds authentic. I'm new to writing myself, but always read. I absolutely love Kazuo Ishiguro's work and I'm currently listening to Klara and the Sun. I knew he was masterful with his subtle style before but now I'm trying to listen more closely to how he does it. He doesn't use a lot of flowery language, it's very stripped back and simple, but it's the attention to detail that paints such a vivid, emotive picture. I'm hoping it will rub off on me! I think the best way to study writing is to experience good writing yourself, as a reader. | 1 | 316 | 1.88 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | in0r2r6 | in02780 | 1,662,268,850 | 1,662,255,170 | 14 | 7 | It all depends on how your brain works. I've got friends who are very analytical, and can dissect a book down to craft tools, themes etc. To me, that makes no sense. I'm very intuitive in my writing and all I do is read lots of craft books, interwoven with lots of fiction. So I'd read a craft book, and with it fresh in my mind, I'd read a fiction book and suddenly, I'd start spotting all the stuff the craft book talked about in the fiction book. But that's just me. Luck and Persistence! | Let's say you're already reading and writing like a fiend. That's your baseline. So here are two of the most effective steps you can take, either of which would accelerate your learning: You could study craft books. A great one for you might be *Reading Like a Writer*, by Francine Prose. This will give you the tools to be able to analyze fiction for its component parts: How is the characterization working? The dialogue? The narration? You could go the academic route. Creative writing courses in college or an MFA program are an investment, but they're also a wonderful opportunity to receive sustained guidance from people who have usually spent decades mastering the craft. (Note: I never advocate for spending money on an MFA program. A lot of the best ones pay *you* to go. Those are the programs I encourage people to apply to.) EDIT: The second option should be the "studying real-time under a pro" route. Aside from college classes, this route could include hiring someone like a fiction coach to help you improve your chops. | 1 | 13,680 | 2 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | in0r2r6 | in06394 | 1,662,268,850 | 1,662,257,053 | 14 | 7 | It all depends on how your brain works. I've got friends who are very analytical, and can dissect a book down to craft tools, themes etc. To me, that makes no sense. I'm very intuitive in my writing and all I do is read lots of craft books, interwoven with lots of fiction. So I'd read a craft book, and with it fresh in my mind, I'd read a fiction book and suddenly, I'd start spotting all the stuff the craft book talked about in the fiction book. But that's just me. Luck and Persistence! | Here’s an outside the box idea: Go to court. Seriously. It’s open to the public. It’s filled with drama and interesting characters. Granted, these characters are presented in the most boring way possible, but that’s your job. Write it interesting. Hit up a session of misdemeanor court where the crimes and the stakes are small. Watch how people talk. Watch how they explain how they f***ed up without actually admitting they f***ed up. Or if you want relationship drama, head to divorce court or child support court. You’ll find plenty. | 1 | 11,797 | 2 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | in0r2r6 | in0jt2z | 1,662,268,850 | 1,662,264,237 | 14 | 5 | It all depends on how your brain works. I've got friends who are very analytical, and can dissect a book down to craft tools, themes etc. To me, that makes no sense. I'm very intuitive in my writing and all I do is read lots of craft books, interwoven with lots of fiction. So I'd read a craft book, and with it fresh in my mind, I'd read a fiction book and suddenly, I'd start spotting all the stuff the craft book talked about in the fiction book. But that's just me. Luck and Persistence! | Reading a lot helps but, IMO, you generally learn most effectively through practical application. Take a book whose writing style you love, take a passage you wrote and are unhappy with, then do your best to rewrite your passage in the style of the writing you love. You are **absolutely** allowed to reference your source material while doing this - and should do so. IMO trying to figure out how to apply someone else's writing style to your own work will give you a deeper understanding than any amount of out-of-context "what is good about this?" reading. As a bonus, it's a fun exercise. 😄 | 1 | 4,613 | 2.8 | ||
x58w85 | writing_train | 0.97 | How do you critically study writing to improve? I've been writing for three years, my writing has improved, a little bit. But nothing drastic that it made writing easier. My dialogue is lame, narrative is lame, my cast is lame, and plot is lame. Any help? I want to get better at this! It felt the years were wasted because I didn't study writing critically. | in0r2r6 | in0jwud | 1,662,268,850 | 1,662,264,298 | 14 | 4 | It all depends on how your brain works. I've got friends who are very analytical, and can dissect a book down to craft tools, themes etc. To me, that makes no sense. I'm very intuitive in my writing and all I do is read lots of craft books, interwoven with lots of fiction. So I'd read a craft book, and with it fresh in my mind, I'd read a fiction book and suddenly, I'd start spotting all the stuff the craft book talked about in the fiction book. But that's just me. Luck and Persistence! | A novel exercise might be to read Matthew from the Bible in modern English looking for the parts religious leaders lie about. For example, they say heaven just exists as if my magic, but it’s written that we need to build it first. | 1 | 4,552 | 3.5 |
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