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w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihl2a9w | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,761,024 | 8 | 63 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | “Like, every piece of absolute advice is heinously bogus.” — Abraham Lincoln’s Dog. “A one-size-all solution fits no one and is inappropriate for every occasion.” —Beau Brummell’s cat. | 0 | 1,573 | 7.875 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihl2a9w | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,761,024 | 4 | 63 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | “Like, every piece of absolute advice is heinously bogus.” — Abraham Lincoln’s Dog. “A one-size-all solution fits no one and is inappropriate for every occasion.” —Beau Brummell’s cat. | 0 | 1,730 | 15.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyz7u | ihl2a9w | 1,658,759,669 | 1,658,761,024 | 4 | 63 | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | “Like, every piece of absolute advice is heinously bogus.” — Abraham Lincoln’s Dog. “A one-size-all solution fits no one and is inappropriate for every occasion.” —Beau Brummell’s cat. | 0 | 1,355 | 15.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlag1v | ihl3otd | 1,658,764,262 | 1,658,761,595 | 52 | 38 | Any rule that claims an absolute (never, always) can safely be ignored. There are no absolutes in writing. That said, you generally shouldn’t overuse non-said tags, for the simple reason that they stand out and can quickly become distracting. “Said” is largely invisible to the reader, so we simply gloss over it. Use something other than said for emphasis, as needed. Just don’t overuse it. | I read somewhere, a long time ago, that tags that indicate volume are okay, can't remember where. This has become my personal rule, and I think it works well. It's because volume can't really be conveyed comfortably any other way. Shouted, screamed, whispered, breathed, I guess snapped would qualify under this rule. I also use "asked" and a couple of other neutral tags, because it looks weird with "said" as a tag for a question. | 1 | 2,667 | 1.368421 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlag1v | ihl64zi | 1,658,764,262 | 1,658,762,587 | 52 | 27 | Any rule that claims an absolute (never, always) can safely be ignored. There are no absolutes in writing. That said, you generally shouldn’t overuse non-said tags, for the simple reason that they stand out and can quickly become distracting. “Said” is largely invisible to the reader, so we simply gloss over it. Use something other than said for emphasis, as needed. Just don’t overuse it. | I feel any rule that declares you shouldn't use a legitimate thing in language and is used in many published books is a rule that you should not follow. | 1 | 1,675 | 1.925926 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihlag1v | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,764,262 | 8 | 52 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | Any rule that claims an absolute (never, always) can safely be ignored. There are no absolutes in writing. That said, you generally shouldn’t overuse non-said tags, for the simple reason that they stand out and can quickly become distracting. “Said” is largely invisible to the reader, so we simply gloss over it. Use something other than said for emphasis, as needed. Just don’t overuse it. | 0 | 4,811 | 6.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihlag1v | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,764,262 | 4 | 52 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | Any rule that claims an absolute (never, always) can safely be ignored. There are no absolutes in writing. That said, you generally shouldn’t overuse non-said tags, for the simple reason that they stand out and can quickly become distracting. “Said” is largely invisible to the reader, so we simply gloss over it. Use something other than said for emphasis, as needed. Just don’t overuse it. | 0 | 4,968 | 13 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyz7u | ihlag1v | 1,658,759,669 | 1,658,764,262 | 4 | 52 | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | Any rule that claims an absolute (never, always) can safely be ignored. There are no absolutes in writing. That said, you generally shouldn’t overuse non-said tags, for the simple reason that they stand out and can quickly become distracting. “Said” is largely invisible to the reader, so we simply gloss over it. Use something other than said for emphasis, as needed. Just don’t overuse it. | 0 | 4,593 | 13 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihl3otd | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,761,595 | 8 | 38 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | I read somewhere, a long time ago, that tags that indicate volume are okay, can't remember where. This has become my personal rule, and I think it works well. It's because volume can't really be conveyed comfortably any other way. Shouted, screamed, whispered, breathed, I guess snapped would qualify under this rule. I also use "asked" and a couple of other neutral tags, because it looks weird with "said" as a tag for a question. | 0 | 2,144 | 4.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihl3otd | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,761,595 | 4 | 38 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | I read somewhere, a long time ago, that tags that indicate volume are okay, can't remember where. This has become my personal rule, and I think it works well. It's because volume can't really be conveyed comfortably any other way. Shouted, screamed, whispered, breathed, I guess snapped would qualify under this rule. I also use "asked" and a couple of other neutral tags, because it looks weird with "said" as a tag for a question. | 0 | 2,301 | 9.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihl3otd | ihkyz7u | 1,658,761,595 | 1,658,759,669 | 38 | 4 | I read somewhere, a long time ago, that tags that indicate volume are okay, can't remember where. This has become my personal rule, and I think it works well. It's because volume can't really be conveyed comfortably any other way. Shouted, screamed, whispered, breathed, I guess snapped would qualify under this rule. I also use "asked" and a couple of other neutral tags, because it looks weird with "said" as a tag for a question. | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | 1 | 1,926 | 9.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihl64zi | ihlojnf | 1,658,762,587 | 1,658,769,627 | 27 | 35 | I feel any rule that declares you shouldn't use a legitimate thing in language and is used in many published books is a rule that you should not follow. | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | 0 | 7,040 | 1.296296 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlbqjp | ihlojnf | 1,658,764,751 | 1,658,769,627 | 14 | 35 | Your dialogue should almost always be able to stand by itself. If you add specific dialogue tags not only do you rob your reader of the ability to interpret the story for themselves, but you come off as irritating or condescending. “You shouldn’t have done that,” Suzie scolded. Yeah. Shes scolding someone. We get that from the text. “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king roared. Its better, but the caps already convey roaring. We already know whats happening. You could instead write this: “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king grabbed the hilt of his sword…. Instead you convey an action, starting a scene, and you convey consequence and character detail. This king is probably prideful, and is willing to use force to defend his pride. | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | 0 | 4,876 | 2.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihlgqkf | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,766,669 | 35 | 8 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | >..."said" is the only attribution tag that should be used... A LOT of writers actually feel this way. Even Stephen King in "On Writing" writes pretty much the same thing. Consider these 2 realities... 1. Just using "said" is almost never wrong. It's safe, reliable and hard to criticize. 2. In going beyond a simple "said", a lot of writers will overdo it...thus leading to clichés and even ridiculous and unreadable dialogue So, I think it's best to generally stick to just using "said" most of the time, and save an occasional more descriptive attribution for when it makes sense. You example makes a pretty good, point, by the way. | 1 | 2,958 | 4.375 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihlojnf | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,769,627 | 8 | 35 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | 0 | 10,176 | 4.375 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihky2z8 | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,759,294 | 35 | 4 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | 1 | 10,333 | 8.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihkyz7u | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,759,669 | 35 | 4 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | 1 | 9,958 | 8.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihlf2eb | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,766,032 | 35 | 3 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | I have no problem whatsoever with dialog attributions other than said. I often use "replied", "shouted", "yelled" etc and never had anyone complain (but I don't write YA, I write adult pulp fantasy). As with all the rules, this one isn't hard and fast. The point is you shouldn't overuse dialog tags for no reason other than varying "said". But you shouldn't completely banish non-said dialog tags from your writing for no reason, either. | 1 | 3,595 | 11.666667 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihljn3d | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,767,767 | 35 | 2 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | I disagree with him. Seems like a bad and limiting idea to only use “said”. | 1 | 1,860 | 17.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlojnf | ihljrnl | 1,658,769,627 | 1,658,767,815 | 35 | 2 | Pam stomped her foot. “What do you mean?” You don’t need the attribution tag here because it’s redundant with the leading action. If you exclude the clause, then I think “What do you mean,” she snapped. Is clearer. | The author does not want to toss the reader out of the book. If a dialogue requires the tag's emphasis, use it. If it is what they are saying vs how they are saying it, said works just fine. And if who is saying what doesn't matter or is less important than what they are saying, don't use tags at all. Whatever you use should match the scene. Anything else will break the tension, flow, whatever else you are doing. And heaven's sake, don't use descriptive tags such as the blonde, the taller of the two, etc if they are characters with names. That tosses me out of dialogue because I have to stop and remember who had blonde hair and who is the taller. | 1 | 1,812 | 17.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihl64zi | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,762,587 | 8 | 27 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | I feel any rule that declares you shouldn't use a legitimate thing in language and is used in many published books is a rule that you should not follow. | 0 | 3,136 | 3.375 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihl64zi | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,762,587 | 4 | 27 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | I feel any rule that declares you shouldn't use a legitimate thing in language and is used in many published books is a rule that you should not follow. | 0 | 3,293 | 6.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihl64zi | ihkyz7u | 1,658,762,587 | 1,658,759,669 | 27 | 4 | I feel any rule that declares you shouldn't use a legitimate thing in language and is used in many published books is a rule that you should not follow. | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | 1 | 2,918 | 6.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyghy | ihlbqjp | 1,658,759,451 | 1,658,764,751 | 8 | 14 | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | Your dialogue should almost always be able to stand by itself. If you add specific dialogue tags not only do you rob your reader of the ability to interpret the story for themselves, but you come off as irritating or condescending. “You shouldn’t have done that,” Suzie scolded. Yeah. Shes scolding someone. We get that from the text. “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king roared. Its better, but the caps already convey roaring. We already know whats happening. You could instead write this: “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king grabbed the hilt of his sword…. Instead you convey an action, starting a scene, and you convey consequence and character detail. This king is probably prideful, and is willing to use force to defend his pride. | 0 | 5,300 | 1.75 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihlbqjp | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,764,751 | 4 | 14 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | Your dialogue should almost always be able to stand by itself. If you add specific dialogue tags not only do you rob your reader of the ability to interpret the story for themselves, but you come off as irritating or condescending. “You shouldn’t have done that,” Suzie scolded. Yeah. Shes scolding someone. We get that from the text. “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king roared. Its better, but the caps already convey roaring. We already know whats happening. You could instead write this: “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king grabbed the hilt of his sword…. Instead you convey an action, starting a scene, and you convey consequence and character detail. This king is probably prideful, and is willing to use force to defend his pride. | 0 | 5,457 | 3.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyz7u | ihlbqjp | 1,658,759,669 | 1,658,764,751 | 4 | 14 | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | Your dialogue should almost always be able to stand by itself. If you add specific dialogue tags not only do you rob your reader of the ability to interpret the story for themselves, but you come off as irritating or condescending. “You shouldn’t have done that,” Suzie scolded. Yeah. Shes scolding someone. We get that from the text. “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king roared. Its better, but the caps already convey roaring. We already know whats happening. You could instead write this: “HOW DARE YOU?” The old king grabbed the hilt of his sword…. Instead you convey an action, starting a scene, and you convey consequence and character detail. This king is probably prideful, and is willing to use force to defend his pride. | 0 | 5,082 | 3.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlgqkf | ihky2z8 | 1,658,766,669 | 1,658,759,294 | 8 | 4 | >..."said" is the only attribution tag that should be used... A LOT of writers actually feel this way. Even Stephen King in "On Writing" writes pretty much the same thing. Consider these 2 realities... 1. Just using "said" is almost never wrong. It's safe, reliable and hard to criticize. 2. In going beyond a simple "said", a lot of writers will overdo it...thus leading to clichés and even ridiculous and unreadable dialogue So, I think it's best to generally stick to just using "said" most of the time, and save an occasional more descriptive attribution for when it makes sense. You example makes a pretty good, point, by the way. | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | 1 | 7,375 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihkyz7u | ihlgqkf | 1,658,759,669 | 1,658,766,669 | 4 | 8 | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | >..."said" is the only attribution tag that should be used... A LOT of writers actually feel this way. Even Stephen King in "On Writing" writes pretty much the same thing. Consider these 2 realities... 1. Just using "said" is almost never wrong. It's safe, reliable and hard to criticize. 2. In going beyond a simple "said", a lot of writers will overdo it...thus leading to clichés and even ridiculous and unreadable dialogue So, I think it's best to generally stick to just using "said" most of the time, and save an occasional more descriptive attribution for when it makes sense. You example makes a pretty good, point, by the way. | 0 | 7,000 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihlf2eb | ihlgqkf | 1,658,766,032 | 1,658,766,669 | 3 | 8 | I have no problem whatsoever with dialog attributions other than said. I often use "replied", "shouted", "yelled" etc and never had anyone complain (but I don't write YA, I write adult pulp fantasy). As with all the rules, this one isn't hard and fast. The point is you shouldn't overuse dialog tags for no reason other than varying "said". But you shouldn't completely banish non-said dialog tags from your writing for no reason, either. | >..."said" is the only attribution tag that should be used... A LOT of writers actually feel this way. Even Stephen King in "On Writing" writes pretty much the same thing. Consider these 2 realities... 1. Just using "said" is almost never wrong. It's safe, reliable and hard to criticize. 2. In going beyond a simple "said", a lot of writers will overdo it...thus leading to clichés and even ridiculous and unreadable dialogue So, I think it's best to generally stick to just using "said" most of the time, and save an occasional more descriptive attribution for when it makes sense. You example makes a pretty good, point, by the way. | 0 | 637 | 2.666667 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihky2z8 | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,759,294 | 8 | 4 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | 1 | 21,504 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihkyz7u | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,759,669 | 8 | 4 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | >What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. Best thing to do is to look at other modern YA novels. How do other authors do it? I use 'said' in the majority of cases, if I use a dialogue tag at all. I use a different tag when I conclude with an exclamation mark (which is also very rare). I don't use interrobangs or multiple punctuation marks at the ends of sentences, so in your example I'd use 'snapped' in place of the exclamation mark. | 1 | 21,129 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihlf2eb | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,766,032 | 8 | 3 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | I have no problem whatsoever with dialog attributions other than said. I often use "replied", "shouted", "yelled" etc and never had anyone complain (but I don't write YA, I write adult pulp fantasy). As with all the rules, this one isn't hard and fast. The point is you shouldn't overuse dialog tags for no reason other than varying "said". But you shouldn't completely banish non-said dialog tags from your writing for no reason, either. | 1 | 14,766 | 2.666667 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihloq7z | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,769,694 | 8 | 3 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | The logic I’ve always followed is to use tags when they add context to the dialogue a reader would otherwise miss, like using yelled or whispered to indicate volume, or (more sparingly) to clarify tone (ex: “he’s meeting us here” is a neutral sentence, but tags like replied, hissed, or reassured give context to the delivery of the line). If said is getting too repetitive, use line dialogue or use ‘action tags’ (“He’s coming here,” Mark poured himself more coffee “and we’re meeting Shelia at the park.”) It’s hard to create rules around dialogue tag usage, because there’s a subjective aspect in what writers or readers may prefer. As a reader I’m sensitive to word repition, so if there is a high volume of ‘said’ dialogue in a passage, I’m put off by it. A friend of mine hates the use of dialogue tags at all, and thinks context and quotation marks clarify enough. A different friend wants lots of tone indicators (exclaimed, mused, accused, etc.) because it helps her imagine how the dialogue would be spoken aloud. None of us are right or wrong, we just have different preferences. A writer’s personal style can also affect how natural or jarring dialogue tags feel. There’s no hard and fast rules, just common wisdom like ‘make sure we know who’s talking’ and ‘vary usage of tags over the course of the scene’. | 1 | 11,104 | 2.666667 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihmhvme | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,780,798 | 3 | 8 | "Bah," I retort. | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | 0 | 1,175 | 2.666667 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihljn3d | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,767,767 | 8 | 2 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | I disagree with him. Seems like a bad and limiting idea to only use “said”. | 1 | 13,031 | 4 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihljrnl | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,767,815 | 8 | 2 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | The author does not want to toss the reader out of the book. If a dialogue requires the tag's emphasis, use it. If it is what they are saying vs how they are saying it, said works just fine. And if who is saying what doesn't matter or is less important than what they are saying, don't use tags at all. Whatever you use should match the scene. Anything else will break the tension, flow, whatever else you are doing. And heaven's sake, don't use descriptive tags such as the blonde, the taller of the two, etc if they are characters with names. That tosses me out of dialogue because I have to stop and remember who had blonde hair and who is the taller. | 1 | 12,983 | 4 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihlpy75 | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,770,152 | 8 | 2 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | I am for reducing attribution tags in general, but I will say the logic that Jerry Jenkins offers is backwards. If the concern is that tags become cliched, over-relying on the single tag does nothing to help this. To me “said” often sounds cliched and redundant. It has no particular advantage over other verbs. Usually “said” is unnecessary because the dialog reflects the character and is interwoven with that character in action. If clarification of who-said-what is necessary the dialogue may be overly dense and script-like. I try to only use a tag if it expresses relevant detail, so I use a variety of tags, but rarely reuse any, even “said.” Every dialog tag sounds cliche if leaned on heavily. | 1 | 10,646 | 4 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmhvme | ihlu9w7 | 1,658,780,798 | 1,658,771,782 | 8 | 2 | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | I only use something other than "said" in very specific situations. "Said" is an invisible word that most readers glide over. By changing it, you're actually creating the opposite effect -- making it more distracting for the reader. Most professional writers will say that using "said" is the only way to go. BTW, in both examples you use in your post, "she" should not be capitalized... "...she snapped." and "...she said." Good luck with your writing! \~Graham | 1 | 9,016 | 4 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmc7ji | ihmhvme | 1,658,778,653 | 1,658,780,798 | 1 | 8 | “Said” gets boring and doesn’t signify tone. “Snapped” signifies the person is angry/annoyed, “announced” indicates the statement is important to the speaker, “retorted” indicates it’s a hostile response to something else | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | 0 | 2,145 | 8 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmh898 | ihmhvme | 1,658,780,553 | 1,658,780,798 | 1 | 8 | vs Pam stomped her foot, "What do you mean!?" As a reader, I **hate** **said**. It sounds like a bad reporter just dialing in their work. Reads poorly, relays nothing, wastes space, and can only really be useful for increasing word count. As a writer, there is so much else going on; She snapped; Her voice like ice; Her voice burning the very air around her. Why would a reader ever need to be told that a character merely said something? I mean, what else are those quotes around those words supposed to convey? Pam scribbled her reaction onto the wall, "quoted text." Sadly, her penmanship was just as horrible back when Sister Nancy said, "Pam would have to write something important one day, and nobody will be able to read it." So the moment, as with many others, was lost. With the exception for when Pam told the MC, "Maggie *said* she would back me." Yes, I admit: But, beyond that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? Quite funny, until halfway through the third act. | One does not use only "said:" one also uses narrative to show who said what. \> My brother glared at me. "Am I to be a clockwork orange?" \> "I refuse to walk another step." Fred stopped walking and sat on the ground. One also uses "said" tags now and then during dialog. \> "Look," Fred said. "I am bloody weary of walking." \> David looked at his brother with no pity. "Shaddup, get yer ass on yer feet, and keep marching." \> "I cannot! Bring to me pizza!" \> "We are in the middle of the San Juan Wilderness! No one will deliver pizza here. Get up." "Carry me." Fred raised his arms as if expecting his brother to lift him off of his ass." "I can barely carry my own ass out of here," David said. | 0 | 245 | 8 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihky2z8 | ihkyghy | 1,658,759,294 | 1,658,759,451 | 4 | 8 | That's leaning into the show-don't-tell guidance. Can you show Pam is upset without using "She snapped" maybe "she said, in a snappish tone?" *Pam's eyes flared and she stomped her foot. "What do you mean?"* | Read some contemporary novels and note what dialogue tags they use and when the authors use them. That will answer your question. | 0 | 157 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihljn3d | ihloq7z | 1,658,767,767 | 1,658,769,694 | 2 | 3 | I disagree with him. Seems like a bad and limiting idea to only use “said”. | The logic I’ve always followed is to use tags when they add context to the dialogue a reader would otherwise miss, like using yelled or whispered to indicate volume, or (more sparingly) to clarify tone (ex: “he’s meeting us here” is a neutral sentence, but tags like replied, hissed, or reassured give context to the delivery of the line). If said is getting too repetitive, use line dialogue or use ‘action tags’ (“He’s coming here,” Mark poured himself more coffee “and we’re meeting Shelia at the park.”) It’s hard to create rules around dialogue tag usage, because there’s a subjective aspect in what writers or readers may prefer. As a reader I’m sensitive to word repition, so if there is a high volume of ‘said’ dialogue in a passage, I’m put off by it. A friend of mine hates the use of dialogue tags at all, and thinks context and quotation marks clarify enough. A different friend wants lots of tone indicators (exclaimed, mused, accused, etc.) because it helps her imagine how the dialogue would be spoken aloud. None of us are right or wrong, we just have different preferences. A writer’s personal style can also affect how natural or jarring dialogue tags feel. There’s no hard and fast rules, just common wisdom like ‘make sure we know who’s talking’ and ‘vary usage of tags over the course of the scene’. | 0 | 1,927 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihloq7z | ihljrnl | 1,658,769,694 | 1,658,767,815 | 3 | 2 | The logic I’ve always followed is to use tags when they add context to the dialogue a reader would otherwise miss, like using yelled or whispered to indicate volume, or (more sparingly) to clarify tone (ex: “he’s meeting us here” is a neutral sentence, but tags like replied, hissed, or reassured give context to the delivery of the line). If said is getting too repetitive, use line dialogue or use ‘action tags’ (“He’s coming here,” Mark poured himself more coffee “and we’re meeting Shelia at the park.”) It’s hard to create rules around dialogue tag usage, because there’s a subjective aspect in what writers or readers may prefer. As a reader I’m sensitive to word repition, so if there is a high volume of ‘said’ dialogue in a passage, I’m put off by it. A friend of mine hates the use of dialogue tags at all, and thinks context and quotation marks clarify enough. A different friend wants lots of tone indicators (exclaimed, mused, accused, etc.) because it helps her imagine how the dialogue would be spoken aloud. None of us are right or wrong, we just have different preferences. A writer’s personal style can also affect how natural or jarring dialogue tags feel. There’s no hard and fast rules, just common wisdom like ‘make sure we know who’s talking’ and ‘vary usage of tags over the course of the scene’. | The author does not want to toss the reader out of the book. If a dialogue requires the tag's emphasis, use it. If it is what they are saying vs how they are saying it, said works just fine. And if who is saying what doesn't matter or is less important than what they are saying, don't use tags at all. Whatever you use should match the scene. Anything else will break the tension, flow, whatever else you are doing. And heaven's sake, don't use descriptive tags such as the blonde, the taller of the two, etc if they are characters with names. That tosses me out of dialogue because I have to stop and remember who had blonde hair and who is the taller. | 1 | 1,879 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihljn3d | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,767,767 | 3 | 2 | "Bah," I retort. | I disagree with him. Seems like a bad and limiting idea to only use “said”. | 1 | 11,856 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihljrnl | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,767,815 | 3 | 2 | "Bah," I retort. | The author does not want to toss the reader out of the book. If a dialogue requires the tag's emphasis, use it. If it is what they are saying vs how they are saying it, said works just fine. And if who is saying what doesn't matter or is less important than what they are saying, don't use tags at all. Whatever you use should match the scene. Anything else will break the tension, flow, whatever else you are doing. And heaven's sake, don't use descriptive tags such as the blonde, the taller of the two, etc if they are characters with names. That tosses me out of dialogue because I have to stop and remember who had blonde hair and who is the taller. | 1 | 11,808 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihlpy75 | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,770,152 | 3 | 2 | "Bah," I retort. | I am for reducing attribution tags in general, but I will say the logic that Jerry Jenkins offers is backwards. If the concern is that tags become cliched, over-relying on the single tag does nothing to help this. To me “said” often sounds cliched and redundant. It has no particular advantage over other verbs. Usually “said” is unnecessary because the dialog reflects the character and is interwoven with that character in action. If clarification of who-said-what is necessary the dialogue may be overly dense and script-like. I try to only use a tag if it expresses relevant detail, so I use a variety of tags, but rarely reuse any, even “said.” Every dialog tag sounds cliche if leaned on heavily. | 1 | 9,471 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihlu9w7 | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,771,782 | 3 | 2 | "Bah," I retort. | I only use something other than "said" in very specific situations. "Said" is an invisible word that most readers glide over. By changing it, you're actually creating the opposite effect -- making it more distracting for the reader. Most professional writers will say that using "said" is the only way to go. BTW, in both examples you use in your post, "she" should not be capitalized... "...she snapped." and "...she said." Good luck with your writing! \~Graham | 1 | 7,841 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmes92 | ihmc7ji | 1,658,779,623 | 1,658,778,653 | 3 | 1 | "Bah," I retort. | “Said” gets boring and doesn’t signify tone. “Snapped” signifies the person is angry/annoyed, “announced” indicates the statement is important to the speaker, “retorted” indicates it’s a hostile response to something else | 1 | 970 | 3 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmriqq | ihljn3d | 1,658,784,458 | 1,658,767,767 | 3 | 2 | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | I disagree with him. Seems like a bad and limiting idea to only use “said”. | 1 | 16,691 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihljrnl | ihmriqq | 1,658,767,815 | 1,658,784,458 | 2 | 3 | The author does not want to toss the reader out of the book. If a dialogue requires the tag's emphasis, use it. If it is what they are saying vs how they are saying it, said works just fine. And if who is saying what doesn't matter or is less important than what they are saying, don't use tags at all. Whatever you use should match the scene. Anything else will break the tension, flow, whatever else you are doing. And heaven's sake, don't use descriptive tags such as the blonde, the taller of the two, etc if they are characters with names. That tosses me out of dialogue because I have to stop and remember who had blonde hair and who is the taller. | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | 0 | 16,643 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmriqq | ihlpy75 | 1,658,784,458 | 1,658,770,152 | 3 | 2 | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | I am for reducing attribution tags in general, but I will say the logic that Jerry Jenkins offers is backwards. If the concern is that tags become cliched, over-relying on the single tag does nothing to help this. To me “said” often sounds cliched and redundant. It has no particular advantage over other verbs. Usually “said” is unnecessary because the dialog reflects the character and is interwoven with that character in action. If clarification of who-said-what is necessary the dialogue may be overly dense and script-like. I try to only use a tag if it expresses relevant detail, so I use a variety of tags, but rarely reuse any, even “said.” Every dialog tag sounds cliche if leaned on heavily. | 1 | 14,306 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmriqq | ihlu9w7 | 1,658,784,458 | 1,658,771,782 | 3 | 2 | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | I only use something other than "said" in very specific situations. "Said" is an invisible word that most readers glide over. By changing it, you're actually creating the opposite effect -- making it more distracting for the reader. Most professional writers will say that using "said" is the only way to go. BTW, in both examples you use in your post, "she" should not be capitalized... "...she snapped." and "...she said." Good luck with your writing! \~Graham | 1 | 12,676 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmriqq | ihmjw90 | 1,658,784,458 | 1,658,781,543 | 3 | 2 | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | I followed Jerry’s program, but my editor put the other dialogue tags back in. | 1 | 2,915 | 1.5 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmc7ji | ihmriqq | 1,658,778,653 | 1,658,784,458 | 1 | 3 | “Said” gets boring and doesn’t signify tone. “Snapped” signifies the person is angry/annoyed, “announced” indicates the statement is important to the speaker, “retorted” indicates it’s a hostile response to something else | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | 0 | 5,805 | 3 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmh898 | ihmriqq | 1,658,780,553 | 1,658,784,458 | 1 | 3 | vs Pam stomped her foot, "What do you mean!?" As a reader, I **hate** **said**. It sounds like a bad reporter just dialing in their work. Reads poorly, relays nothing, wastes space, and can only really be useful for increasing word count. As a writer, there is so much else going on; She snapped; Her voice like ice; Her voice burning the very air around her. Why would a reader ever need to be told that a character merely said something? I mean, what else are those quotes around those words supposed to convey? Pam scribbled her reaction onto the wall, "quoted text." Sadly, her penmanship was just as horrible back when Sister Nancy said, "Pam would have to write something important one day, and nobody will be able to read it." So the moment, as with many others, was lost. With the exception for when Pam told the MC, "Maggie *said* she would back me." Yes, I admit: But, beyond that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? Quite funny, until halfway through the third act. | Elmore Leonard agrees. so does Stephen King. use 'said' as much as possible, maybe not 100% of the time (in King's case) but far more often than not. I tend to agree that the dialogue should stand on its own without tags like shouted, mumbled, groaned, wheezed, etc. that stuff just gets distracting and it usually seems lazy. 'said' is not monotonous. it's invisible. it doesn't distract from the story, or make the reader wonder how someone can "chortle" a line of dialogue. you need to find ways to make the dialogue more lively or interesting rather than using other tags as a crutch. you can go many many many lines of dialogue without any tags at all. you can use little descriptive/narrative bits to indicate the speaker or the tone, subtext, etc. here's an example from *361* by Donald E. Westlake. this is an older crime novel. >I said, “Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?” >“What? What?” His head nearly raised up from the pillow, and then subsided. “Don’t shout so,” he said. His breathing was louder. “I am an “old man, my memory is failing me, I have a bad heart. You cannot rely on what I say. I should have told Samuel no. I should have refused.” >“Samuel Krishman? He doesn’t know the answer, does he?” >The belly laughed, shaking him. “He never knew anything. A fool!” >“But you do.” lazy writing would have been: >I shouted, "Who told Willard Kelly to stay out of town?" or >"He never knew anything," the old man laughed, his belly shaking. "A fool." | 0 | 3,905 | 3 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmjw90 | ihmc7ji | 1,658,781,543 | 1,658,778,653 | 2 | 1 | I followed Jerry’s program, but my editor put the other dialogue tags back in. | “Said” gets boring and doesn’t signify tone. “Snapped” signifies the person is angry/annoyed, “announced” indicates the statement is important to the speaker, “retorted” indicates it’s a hostile response to something else | 1 | 2,890 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmh898 | ihmjw90 | 1,658,780,553 | 1,658,781,543 | 1 | 2 | vs Pam stomped her foot, "What do you mean!?" As a reader, I **hate** **said**. It sounds like a bad reporter just dialing in their work. Reads poorly, relays nothing, wastes space, and can only really be useful for increasing word count. As a writer, there is so much else going on; She snapped; Her voice like ice; Her voice burning the very air around her. Why would a reader ever need to be told that a character merely said something? I mean, what else are those quotes around those words supposed to convey? Pam scribbled her reaction onto the wall, "quoted text." Sadly, her penmanship was just as horrible back when Sister Nancy said, "Pam would have to write something important one day, and nobody will be able to read it." So the moment, as with many others, was lost. With the exception for when Pam told the MC, "Maggie *said* she would back me." Yes, I admit: But, beyond that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? Quite funny, until halfway through the third act. | I followed Jerry’s program, but my editor put the other dialogue tags back in. | 0 | 990 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihmc7ji | ihnlxkf | 1,658,778,653 | 1,658,797,449 | 1 | 2 | “Said” gets boring and doesn’t signify tone. “Snapped” signifies the person is angry/annoyed, “announced” indicates the statement is important to the speaker, “retorted” indicates it’s a hostile response to something else | Jerry Jenkins? The author of the Left Behind books? That guy wouldn't know good writing if it kicked him in the dick. | 0 | 18,796 | 2 | ||
w7q8nq | writing_train | 0.88 | Reading a short Jerry Jenkins dialogue guide. He says "said" is the only attribution tag that should be used, and attribution tags such as replied, retorted, exclaimed, and declared have become clichéd and archaic. I've been working on a YA, modern day setting novel. I'm about half way through my second draft and have been studying how to properly format my dialogue and came across this guide: https://jerryjenkins.com/how-to-write-dialogue/ I agree with everything else in the guide 100% but I've been using alternate attribution tags, and according to him, I'm wrong. I don't mind fixing them all to modernize my story but I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't care for the additional description. reading them aloud it sounds fine and also breaks up the "said" monotony. \_\_\_\_ In this example vs the two, if we had to use an attribution tag, I think snapped tells a better story than said. Ideally in this situation though, no tag would be more telling than said in my opinion. Pam stomped her foot, "What you mean?!" She snapped. vs Pam stomper her foot, "What do you mean?!" She said. \_\_\_\_ What does everyone else think? I want to conform to modern standards for my first novel. | ihnlxkf | ihmh898 | 1,658,797,449 | 1,658,780,553 | 2 | 1 | Jerry Jenkins? The author of the Left Behind books? That guy wouldn't know good writing if it kicked him in the dick. | vs Pam stomped her foot, "What do you mean!?" As a reader, I **hate** **said**. It sounds like a bad reporter just dialing in their work. Reads poorly, relays nothing, wastes space, and can only really be useful for increasing word count. As a writer, there is so much else going on; She snapped; Her voice like ice; Her voice burning the very air around her. Why would a reader ever need to be told that a character merely said something? I mean, what else are those quotes around those words supposed to convey? Pam scribbled her reaction onto the wall, "quoted text." Sadly, her penmanship was just as horrible back when Sister Nancy said, "Pam would have to write something important one day, and nobody will be able to read it." So the moment, as with many others, was lost. With the exception for when Pam told the MC, "Maggie *said* she would back me." Yes, I admit: But, beyond that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln? Quite funny, until halfway through the third act. | 1 | 16,896 | 2 | ||
tx9ueb | writing_train | 0.81 | If I have a character who is very expressive in their movements and facial expression, should I write that? Expressive as in facial expressions like annoyance or happiness, etc because it's a part of their personality. Or movements with the way they walk or use a lot of gestures. | i3klpzt | i3lls67 | 1,649,209,901 | 1,649,231,591 | 1 | 2 | Find your facial expressions and then try find similes that capture the energy of that expression, if the expression requires more body movement then describe that. I've a lecturer who has a career in theatre who fucking shimmies and spins and wobbles after every sentence like the limelight has never left him. Seriously, he'd be like "it's our job to torture our characters" and do a half box-step like he's on a turbulent sailing ship, The expression of a comedic incredulous beat is one I'm most proud of wrangling a simile for. "His following expression was that of a wall shattering seconds after someone had struck it." Just experiment around, have fun, people do all sorts of little body language all the time | Depends on what you write. I do 3rd person limited so I'll do things like "they felt their eyes widen" bc they can't see it themselves but they'd feel it. Same w a lot of body language. Maybe that helps? | 0 | 21,690 | 2 | ||
tx9ueb | writing_train | 0.81 | If I have a character who is very expressive in their movements and facial expression, should I write that? Expressive as in facial expressions like annoyance or happiness, etc because it's a part of their personality. Or movements with the way they walk or use a lot of gestures. | i3kstml | i3lls67 | 1,649,213,157 | 1,649,231,591 | -1 | 2 | Honestly yea! I have a lot of expressive characters and I don’t agree with most answers saying no, or more is less. Obviously don’t overload us to the point it’s THEIR only characterization but also don’t hold back. Here’s the thing unless your literally stopping action or plot to describe their expressions at times when it simply would not fit what’s going on I think it’s a good thing to do and adds a lot to a character, it gives them personality something I value as a reader who values characters above all else, since I will not give a heck about plot if I don’t want the characters to succeed which makes logical sense because plot only impacts characters. I would decide how and why there expressive, and what kind of tone it adds to your story when. For me I have a character who’s an actor and also very overly sweet so there going to be more expressive when joking and interacting with those they like, jazz hands etc. Another one of my characters perhaps a better example is a character of mine who uses there expression as a way of communication. This character can still talk but they find there expressions and gestures help them get their point across much more clearly. For example everyone knows there happy when they have huge wide tinkling eyes and a grin. They know their upset when they tap there hands and scrunch there face (there’s more too but this is the simplified version.) Some things to consider is expression is often associated with - being dramatic - being quirky - anxiety - ADHD/Autism/Tics/Stims/nurodiversity (ONLY IF you decide to go this route and do proper research.) - loud outgoing characters - some may even see it as childish. Just figure out your character and role with it And please if your character does do this don’t tell how they feel let there expressions speak for themself because your in a positon where you quite literally have a character Who’s personality is to show. | Depends on what you write. I do 3rd person limited so I'll do things like "they felt their eyes widen" bc they can't see it themselves but they'd feel it. Same w a lot of body language. Maybe that helps? | 0 | 18,434 | -2 | ||
tx9ueb | writing_train | 0.81 | If I have a character who is very expressive in their movements and facial expression, should I write that? Expressive as in facial expressions like annoyance or happiness, etc because it's a part of their personality. Or movements with the way they walk or use a lot of gestures. | i3lqufx | i3kstml | 1,649,235,932 | 1,649,213,157 | 1 | -1 | Yes, you should definitely write that! It will help your reader to understand and visualize your character better. | Honestly yea! I have a lot of expressive characters and I don’t agree with most answers saying no, or more is less. Obviously don’t overload us to the point it’s THEIR only characterization but also don’t hold back. Here’s the thing unless your literally stopping action or plot to describe their expressions at times when it simply would not fit what’s going on I think it’s a good thing to do and adds a lot to a character, it gives them personality something I value as a reader who values characters above all else, since I will not give a heck about plot if I don’t want the characters to succeed which makes logical sense because plot only impacts characters. I would decide how and why there expressive, and what kind of tone it adds to your story when. For me I have a character who’s an actor and also very overly sweet so there going to be more expressive when joking and interacting with those they like, jazz hands etc. Another one of my characters perhaps a better example is a character of mine who uses there expression as a way of communication. This character can still talk but they find there expressions and gestures help them get their point across much more clearly. For example everyone knows there happy when they have huge wide tinkling eyes and a grin. They know their upset when they tap there hands and scrunch there face (there’s more too but this is the simplified version.) Some things to consider is expression is often associated with - being dramatic - being quirky - anxiety - ADHD/Autism/Tics/Stims/nurodiversity (ONLY IF you decide to go this route and do proper research.) - loud outgoing characters - some may even see it as childish. Just figure out your character and role with it And please if your character does do this don’t tell how they feel let there expressions speak for themself because your in a positon where you quite literally have a character Who’s personality is to show. | 1 | 22,775 | -1 | ||
tx9ueb | writing_train | 0.81 | If I have a character who is very expressive in their movements and facial expression, should I write that? Expressive as in facial expressions like annoyance or happiness, etc because it's a part of their personality. Or movements with the way they walk or use a lot of gestures. | i3kstml | i3n615g | 1,649,213,157 | 1,649,262,061 | -1 | 1 | Honestly yea! I have a lot of expressive characters and I don’t agree with most answers saying no, or more is less. Obviously don’t overload us to the point it’s THEIR only characterization but also don’t hold back. Here’s the thing unless your literally stopping action or plot to describe their expressions at times when it simply would not fit what’s going on I think it’s a good thing to do and adds a lot to a character, it gives them personality something I value as a reader who values characters above all else, since I will not give a heck about plot if I don’t want the characters to succeed which makes logical sense because plot only impacts characters. I would decide how and why there expressive, and what kind of tone it adds to your story when. For me I have a character who’s an actor and also very overly sweet so there going to be more expressive when joking and interacting with those they like, jazz hands etc. Another one of my characters perhaps a better example is a character of mine who uses there expression as a way of communication. This character can still talk but they find there expressions and gestures help them get their point across much more clearly. For example everyone knows there happy when they have huge wide tinkling eyes and a grin. They know their upset when they tap there hands and scrunch there face (there’s more too but this is the simplified version.) Some things to consider is expression is often associated with - being dramatic - being quirky - anxiety - ADHD/Autism/Tics/Stims/nurodiversity (ONLY IF you decide to go this route and do proper research.) - loud outgoing characters - some may even see it as childish. Just figure out your character and role with it And please if your character does do this don’t tell how they feel let there expressions speak for themself because your in a positon where you quite literally have a character Who’s personality is to show. | Of course, you should make all your character manerisms, body language and common expressions very clear to the audience, so that he stantds out and looks unique. If not he will be forgotten. | 0 | 48,904 | -1 | ||
tx9ueb | writing_train | 0.81 | If I have a character who is very expressive in their movements and facial expression, should I write that? Expressive as in facial expressions like annoyance or happiness, etc because it's a part of their personality. Or movements with the way they walk or use a lot of gestures. | i3p9s5l | i3kstml | 1,649,291,917 | 1,649,213,157 | 1 | -1 | If the character is very expressive, I would say don't explain their movements, because if it's in first person (main character), normal people don't usually take note of their habits. If someone has a habit of pulling on their shirt collar, that would be something they do unconsciously. Instead, I recommend writing their position, facial expressions, etc, from another character's P.O.V if you can. It makes the writing process a lot easier for me. | Honestly yea! I have a lot of expressive characters and I don’t agree with most answers saying no, or more is less. Obviously don’t overload us to the point it’s THEIR only characterization but also don’t hold back. Here’s the thing unless your literally stopping action or plot to describe their expressions at times when it simply would not fit what’s going on I think it’s a good thing to do and adds a lot to a character, it gives them personality something I value as a reader who values characters above all else, since I will not give a heck about plot if I don’t want the characters to succeed which makes logical sense because plot only impacts characters. I would decide how and why there expressive, and what kind of tone it adds to your story when. For me I have a character who’s an actor and also very overly sweet so there going to be more expressive when joking and interacting with those they like, jazz hands etc. Another one of my characters perhaps a better example is a character of mine who uses there expression as a way of communication. This character can still talk but they find there expressions and gestures help them get their point across much more clearly. For example everyone knows there happy when they have huge wide tinkling eyes and a grin. They know their upset when they tap there hands and scrunch there face (there’s more too but this is the simplified version.) Some things to consider is expression is often associated with - being dramatic - being quirky - anxiety - ADHD/Autism/Tics/Stims/nurodiversity (ONLY IF you decide to go this route and do proper research.) - loud outgoing characters - some may even see it as childish. Just figure out your character and role with it And please if your character does do this don’t tell how they feel let there expressions speak for themself because your in a positon where you quite literally have a character Who’s personality is to show. | 1 | 78,760 | -1 | ||
yw1cfv | writing_train | 0.75 | I'm questioning myself as a writer I started writing short stories around 2016. But I started reading novels around 2017 amd finished my first novel the same year. I've read mostly cliche teen fiction as a beginner in reading which were written with my mother tongue. Then I started reading English romance novels. All of these were from Wattpad btw. I had no budget to buy real books before but I wanted to try reading from an actual book instead of e-books. So I bought used books that were written in English. There were times when I borrowed some from my classmates. When I could finally afford brand new books, I bough the Hunger Games trilogy and the Divergent series (the book hunt was fun while it lasted). I've been writing for like six years. For the past months, I barely finished a book. I often watch series as a past time instead. And I'm a part of the club for our school newspaper. Since it's National Book Month, we have tasks to do. During our meeting, our club adviser was mentioning plenty of authors and stories and he kept on asking if we knew the book or if we read it. I feel stupid for only knowing Jane Austen from all the famous authors he mentioned. This wasn't the first time. My peers know (even my teachers) that I love to write or they recognized it as my passion (which is actually true). But it frustrates me when they expect me to know a lot of books when the truth is I don't. They'll drop a well-known author on me and I feel embarrassed to tell them that I only heard of them but I don't really know their work. Sometimes I have zero idea about them. I feel bad. Sometimes I feel like I'm a fake writer. I write more and read less so I'm not sure if I could actually produce a good book for that behavior. Here's another thing that frustrates me, I tried to read well-known books like Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. English is just my second language so I struggled to reach Chapter 10. I find it hard to comprehend what was happening because my vocabulary was limited. I feel kinda lost. I don't know how could I get myself back into reading. I'm also currently trying to finish a novel that I've been writing for more than a year now. If you have any suggestions on what I should do, I'm all ears | iwhx74m | iwh7o7p | 1,668,541,050 | 1,668,531,230 | 4 | 3 | If you want to be a writer, you can do it! Keep writing, revising and working on your craft. It might be more helpful to read more contemporary novels. Jane Austen is great for studying characters, but nobody writes in that style anymore. | I've same problem mate.. | 1 | 9,820 | 1.333333 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqobxcb | gqof3u8 | 1,615,543,180 | 1,615,546,378 | 3 | 6 | You don't submit to publishers directly, you submit to an agent. And yes, of course they do evaluate individual works, because that's the product they want to sell. Everything else wouldn't make any sense. So yeah, if your work is well written, no one cares where you're from (unless you're from Iran or something, because politics). And if it's riddled with grammatical errors or such, you can be as native as they come, it won't get you a contract. | Nobody will care whether English happens to be your first language or not. But you won't get any special leeway just because you happen to be a non-native speaker. You'll have to get your writing to the same standard as everyone else. They're not going to say "Oh, they're a non-native speaker so therefore the writing will be bad." But they also won't say "This is riddled with errors, but we'll give them a break because they're a non-native speaker." | 0 | 3,198 | 2 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqoccnd | gqof3u8 | 1,615,543,621 | 1,615,546,378 | 4 | 6 | How would they even know? | Nobody will care whether English happens to be your first language or not. But you won't get any special leeway just because you happen to be a non-native speaker. You'll have to get your writing to the same standard as everyone else. They're not going to say "Oh, they're a non-native speaker so therefore the writing will be bad." But they also won't say "This is riddled with errors, but we'll give them a break because they're a non-native speaker." | 0 | 2,757 | 1.5 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqof3u8 | gqodprn | 1,615,546,378 | 1,615,545,017 | 6 | 2 | Nobody will care whether English happens to be your first language or not. But you won't get any special leeway just because you happen to be a non-native speaker. You'll have to get your writing to the same standard as everyone else. They're not going to say "Oh, they're a non-native speaker so therefore the writing will be bad." But they also won't say "This is riddled with errors, but we'll give them a break because they're a non-native speaker." | There've been best sellers written by non-anglophones. The Millennium series for example. Both the original trilogy and the trilogy written after the authors death were written by Swedes. Getting your writing up to the required standard is probably going to be more of a challenge when it isn't your native language. But once it is up to snuff there is no reason it shouldn't be accepted. | 1 | 1,361 | 3 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqod3j3 | gqof3u8 | 1,615,544,387 | 1,615,546,378 | 1 | 6 | They mightn't directly care if you are a non-native speaker writing in English. But they will care about the quality of your writing. And that includes whether or not it is riddled with grammar errors. | Nobody will care whether English happens to be your first language or not. But you won't get any special leeway just because you happen to be a non-native speaker. You'll have to get your writing to the same standard as everyone else. They're not going to say "Oh, they're a non-native speaker so therefore the writing will be bad." But they also won't say "This is riddled with errors, but we'll give them a break because they're a non-native speaker." | 0 | 1,991 | 6 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqobxcb | gqoccnd | 1,615,543,180 | 1,615,543,621 | 3 | 4 | You don't submit to publishers directly, you submit to an agent. And yes, of course they do evaluate individual works, because that's the product they want to sell. Everything else wouldn't make any sense. So yeah, if your work is well written, no one cares where you're from (unless you're from Iran or something, because politics). And if it's riddled with grammatical errors or such, you can be as native as they come, it won't get you a contract. | How would they even know? | 0 | 441 | 1.333333 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqp51gz | gqodprn | 1,615,562,747 | 1,615,545,017 | 3 | 2 | Run your manuscript by Native English speaker(s) for editing. They’ll be able to clean it all up from that angle. As long as the text reads correctly, I don’t see why they wouldn’t, because at that point, the problem’s been fixed. Side note: there are TONS of grammatically messy manuscripts written by NATIVE English speakers too. It’s not just an ESL problem (and English is actually considered one of the most difficult languages to learn because it’s this huge blob of all sorts of languages with limitless rules and such). If worst comes to worst, you can always self publish it. (But still run it by English editors, it can only help) | There've been best sellers written by non-anglophones. The Millennium series for example. Both the original trilogy and the trilogy written after the authors death were written by Swedes. Getting your writing up to the required standard is probably going to be more of a challenge when it isn't your native language. But once it is up to snuff there is no reason it shouldn't be accepted. | 1 | 17,730 | 1.5 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqod3j3 | gqp51gz | 1,615,544,387 | 1,615,562,747 | 1 | 3 | They mightn't directly care if you are a non-native speaker writing in English. But they will care about the quality of your writing. And that includes whether or not it is riddled with grammar errors. | Run your manuscript by Native English speaker(s) for editing. They’ll be able to clean it all up from that angle. As long as the text reads correctly, I don’t see why they wouldn’t, because at that point, the problem’s been fixed. Side note: there are TONS of grammatically messy manuscripts written by NATIVE English speakers too. It’s not just an ESL problem (and English is actually considered one of the most difficult languages to learn because it’s this huge blob of all sorts of languages with limitless rules and such). If worst comes to worst, you can always self publish it. (But still run it by English editors, it can only help) | 0 | 18,360 | 3 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqof4e8 | gqp51gz | 1,615,546,394 | 1,615,562,747 | 1 | 3 | Two word: Line Edit | Run your manuscript by Native English speaker(s) for editing. They’ll be able to clean it all up from that angle. As long as the text reads correctly, I don’t see why they wouldn’t, because at that point, the problem’s been fixed. Side note: there are TONS of grammatically messy manuscripts written by NATIVE English speakers too. It’s not just an ESL problem (and English is actually considered one of the most difficult languages to learn because it’s this huge blob of all sorts of languages with limitless rules and such). If worst comes to worst, you can always self publish it. (But still run it by English editors, it can only help) | 0 | 16,353 | 3 | ||
m3ea5n | writing_train | 0.78 | Would publishers take you less seriously upon learning that you wrote in English as a non-native speaker? I fear that they would think that my writing is riddled with grammatical errors and other such oddities, and maybe they wouldn't even give it a chance. I imagine many people turned to writing during the lockdown, so publishers probably have even less time to spare evaluating individual works than before. I'm young without any experience in publishing (I'm still working on my first novel, and it still has a looong way to go), so sorry if this is a weird question. | gqodprn | gqod3j3 | 1,615,545,017 | 1,615,544,387 | 2 | 1 | There've been best sellers written by non-anglophones. The Millennium series for example. Both the original trilogy and the trilogy written after the authors death were written by Swedes. Getting your writing up to the required standard is probably going to be more of a challenge when it isn't your native language. But once it is up to snuff there is no reason it shouldn't be accepted. | They mightn't directly care if you are a non-native speaker writing in English. But they will care about the quality of your writing. And that includes whether or not it is riddled with grammar errors. | 1 | 630 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy7a512 | hy7p0jw | 1,645,679,402 | 1,645,687,996 | 5 | 10 | If I'm in a slog I do pomadoro bribing. Where I will set a timer for like 20 minutes and make myself write (rereading and editing counts if I need to get back into the current moment) and then I do the same amount of time on a video. Whenever the timer beeps switch activities. | Get off reddit for one | 0 | 8,594 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy78jnk | hy7p0jw | 1,645,678,615 | 1,645,687,996 | 4 | 10 | Do you prefer the carrot, or the stick? | Get off reddit for one | 0 | 9,381 | 2.5 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy7alcs | hy7p0jw | 1,645,679,631 | 1,645,687,996 | 3 | 10 | I struggled with this for a while (and still do), especially if I just finished a chapter. It can take me weeks to start the next one. What i started doing is forcing myself to go to a coffee shop after work. At first I did it just to avoid rush hour (I live in LA), but now I do it even on my days off. I don't bring headphones and sometime will even leave my phone in the car if I think I'll be tempted. It literally forces your hand, and if you have a good session you can buy yourself a muffin or something as a reward. | Get off reddit for one | 0 | 8,365 | 3.333333 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy7a512 | hy91f7e | 1,645,679,402 | 1,645,716,390 | 5 | 6 | If I'm in a slog I do pomadoro bribing. Where I will set a timer for like 20 minutes and make myself write (rereading and editing counts if I need to get back into the current moment) and then I do the same amount of time on a video. Whenever the timer beeps switch activities. | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | 0 | 36,988 | 1.2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy78jnk | hy7a512 | 1,645,678,615 | 1,645,679,402 | 4 | 5 | Do you prefer the carrot, or the stick? | If I'm in a slog I do pomadoro bribing. Where I will set a timer for like 20 minutes and make myself write (rereading and editing counts if I need to get back into the current moment) and then I do the same amount of time on a video. Whenever the timer beeps switch activities. | 0 | 787 | 1.25 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy91f7e | hy78jnk | 1,645,716,390 | 1,645,678,615 | 6 | 4 | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | Do you prefer the carrot, or the stick? | 1 | 37,775 | 1.5 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy91f7e | hy7alcs | 1,645,716,390 | 1,645,679,631 | 6 | 3 | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | I struggled with this for a while (and still do), especially if I just finished a chapter. It can take me weeks to start the next one. What i started doing is forcing myself to go to a coffee shop after work. At first I did it just to avoid rush hour (I live in LA), but now I do it even on my days off. I don't bring headphones and sometime will even leave my phone in the car if I think I'll be tempted. It literally forces your hand, and if you have a good session you can buy yourself a muffin or something as a reward. | 1 | 36,759 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy91f7e | hy8d7xf | 1,645,716,390 | 1,645,705,095 | 6 | 1 | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | These past few years I've taken to waking up at 4 sharp, going to the kitchen or my office to write. Anything will do, a new drabble or an old, ongoing draft. Some days it's not much, but some other got me write like 10 pages before I had to start taking care of the house at 7. | 1 | 11,295 | 6 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8ewq5 | hy91f7e | 1,645,706,087 | 1,645,716,390 | 1 | 6 | r/writingcirclejerk | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | 0 | 10,303 | 6 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8pkq8 | hy91f7e | 1,645,711,465 | 1,645,716,390 | 1 | 6 | I set up alarms and get to it when they ring. I might write 100 words, might write 1000, but stuff is getting done. | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | 0 | 4,925 | 6 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy91c3e | hy91f7e | 1,645,716,356 | 1,645,716,390 | 1 | 6 | schedule it and do it, honestly. even if you don't feel like it and even if you're positive you'll write nothing but crap. set a timer, write for 15 minutes, and when it goes off, decide if you're done for the day or if this isn't so bad after all. and now that I've said that, I'm going to go take my own advice so this isn't a do as I say not as I do situation | What's helped me: 1: Setting a modest daily word goal 2. Creating a work space The second has probably been the most helpful to me. I was trying to write in the same area where I spend my leisure time---on my couch, where I watch TV/read/surf the internet. Was absolutely not working and I was giving up after writing 20 words. So now when I want to write, I move my lap top to a dedicated work space in my apartment. it's really helped because writing can be fun but it's also work. | 0 | 34 | 6 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy9ne7g | hy7alcs | 1,645,724,657 | 1,645,679,631 | 4 | 3 | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | I struggled with this for a while (and still do), especially if I just finished a chapter. It can take me weeks to start the next one. What i started doing is forcing myself to go to a coffee shop after work. At first I did it just to avoid rush hour (I live in LA), but now I do it even on my days off. I don't bring headphones and sometime will even leave my phone in the car if I think I'll be tempted. It literally forces your hand, and if you have a good session you can buy yourself a muffin or something as a reward. | 1 | 45,026 | 1.333333 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8d7xf | hy9ne7g | 1,645,705,095 | 1,645,724,657 | 1 | 4 | These past few years I've taken to waking up at 4 sharp, going to the kitchen or my office to write. Anything will do, a new drabble or an old, ongoing draft. Some days it's not much, but some other got me write like 10 pages before I had to start taking care of the house at 7. | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | 0 | 19,562 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8ewq5 | hy9ne7g | 1,645,706,087 | 1,645,724,657 | 1 | 4 | r/writingcirclejerk | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | 0 | 18,570 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8pkq8 | hy9ne7g | 1,645,711,465 | 1,645,724,657 | 1 | 4 | I set up alarms and get to it when they ring. I might write 100 words, might write 1000, but stuff is getting done. | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | 0 | 13,192 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy9ne7g | hy91c3e | 1,645,724,657 | 1,645,716,356 | 4 | 1 | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | schedule it and do it, honestly. even if you don't feel like it and even if you're positive you'll write nothing but crap. set a timer, write for 15 minutes, and when it goes off, decide if you're done for the day or if this isn't so bad after all. and now that I've said that, I'm going to go take my own advice so this isn't a do as I say not as I do situation | 1 | 8,301 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy9675s | hy9ne7g | 1,645,718,214 | 1,645,724,657 | 1 | 4 | For me, it's having other work and I want to procrastinate :) | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | 0 | 6,443 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy99f1l | hy9ne7g | 1,645,719,421 | 1,645,724,657 | 1 | 4 | If you sit down in front of the keyboard, you dont get up until you write something. Its that easy. Most things are, people make them difficult by looking for complex answers. | For me, it was realizing that I was moving goal posts and setting impossible expectations. I could set a goal of writing 2000 word a day and things are working, if barely. Then I stumble and miss day, so I decide to work it off by scatter the lost words over next week's sessions. It's like 300 words extra a day for a week, that's not too impossible, right? But if I was barely keeping up 2000 words a day, adding another 300 on top would break the camel's back. For that week, I would sometimes reach past 2300 words, other times I would fail and only come up to 2100 or 2200. In my mind, it would feel like I broke my own promise so many times durign that week. But my original goal was 2000 words a day. I had only broken that once. The other "broken goals" were when I tried for 2300 words a day. How the heck did the goal posts move? The repetitions are also more important than the quality. Many have mentiond exercise and I think that's a great simile. It's not about doing intense work-out sessions that make you feel like you're dead the next day, it's about making it a habit to go to the gym or go for a run. Making a habit to show up. Set achievable goals. I tend to have no good awareness what "achievable" is so I usually set a minimum goal, be it word quantity or a timer. 100 words or 10 minutes a day. Less if needed. I try to set it so low that I roll my eyes because I think I can do it as soon as I wake up. And if I can think like that, then I've succeeded. Wake up, write 100 words, done. What now? Well, since I'm sitting by my desk with my document open, I could write a little bit more. Even better! What about next day? What's the goal now? Well, I wrote a total of 600 words yesterday, so I could probably do it today, right? Nope, moving goal posts again! Strive for 100 words. The rest is just bonus. Same thing with next day. And next day. Goal of 100 words. Everything else is bonus. Stick with it for a month. Good, let's add another 50 words and see how it goes. Build the habit slowly over time. Writing a book is not a rush unless it's your only source of income. If it is, you'll have the inner panic button chasing away the procrastination. To make another comparison: When dieting, it's not healthy to starve yourself for a whole week to lose 10 pounds / 4,5 kg. There's the risk of jojo-effect, lack of nutrition makes you more prone for injuries, and it'll affect your mood day-to-day. A smaller caloric deficit over a longer time is more sustainable. In my opinion, the daily motion of opening the page and write is much more important than the amount of of words you churn out every day. Good luck! | 0 | 5,236 | 4 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8d7xf | hyax51r | 1,645,705,095 | 1,645,741,749 | 1 | 2 | These past few years I've taken to waking up at 4 sharp, going to the kitchen or my office to write. Anything will do, a new drabble or an old, ongoing draft. Some days it's not much, but some other got me write like 10 pages before I had to start taking care of the house at 7. | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | 0 | 36,654 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy8ewq5 | hyax51r | 1,645,706,087 | 1,645,741,749 | 1 | 2 | r/writingcirclejerk | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | 0 | 35,662 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hyax51r | hy8pkq8 | 1,645,741,749 | 1,645,711,465 | 2 | 1 | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | I set up alarms and get to it when they ring. I might write 100 words, might write 1000, but stuff is getting done. | 1 | 30,284 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy91c3e | hyax51r | 1,645,716,356 | 1,645,741,749 | 1 | 2 | schedule it and do it, honestly. even if you don't feel like it and even if you're positive you'll write nothing but crap. set a timer, write for 15 minutes, and when it goes off, decide if you're done for the day or if this isn't so bad after all. and now that I've said that, I'm going to go take my own advice so this isn't a do as I say not as I do situation | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | 0 | 25,393 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hyax51r | hy9675s | 1,645,741,749 | 1,645,718,214 | 2 | 1 | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | For me, it's having other work and I want to procrastinate :) | 1 | 23,535 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hy99f1l | hyax51r | 1,645,719,421 | 1,645,741,749 | 1 | 2 | If you sit down in front of the keyboard, you dont get up until you write something. Its that easy. Most things are, people make them difficult by looking for complex answers. | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | 0 | 22,328 | 2 | ||
t01ukz | writing_train | 0.87 | How do you avoid procrastination and discipline yourself to actually write? Especially when you're in the middle of the story | hyapmnv | hyax51r | 1,645,738,924 | 1,645,741,749 | 1 | 2 | Meh, i tell you later, maybe. | For me I do something related to the story or the universe I’m building in some way if I’m stuck on writing… that is what usually causes procrastination, writers block. So I’ll do something like sketch out floor plans for the home of a character, search for images to help create the character visually in my head, start outlining how I want the next few chapters to be roughly so that when I do feel inspired I can knock it out. | 0 | 2,825 | 2 | ||
qxf55h | writing_train | 0.97 | Sometimes you have to force yourself to write. Earlier this year, I wrote 70k in 77 days while being a dad to a toddler and working full-time. That's not a humble brag. I hated it. It was my first time finishing anything longer than a poem in fifteen years. I say all that because I had a writing schedule of an hour or so daily (not including weekends). Many days I had to force myself to write. I was plagued by hard or awkward scenes, moments of self-doubt, fatigue and all the reasons in the world to not write. But I wanted to write a book and finish one. Often when I got to writing, I was able to get into it and write up to 1000 words in one sitting. Sometimes I even went up to 1500 words (that took more than an hour and cost me some sleep). But there were times I only wrote 500 words or 300. Those were days when I just wrote something so that I didn't break the habit. I often had to push myself to take up my phone (easier than a laptop to me, but hand writing should also work). But I never regretted it afterwards. Even 300 words meant that I had that much less to write. Everyone is different and what works for me may not work for but if nothing else, consider why you wanna write, what you want to achieve and how to get yourself there. If you always love your writing sessions, that's awesome. If not, still find a way to get yourself there. Having a finished book is the greatest feeling (until you have to navigate getting it published). | hl8yerx | hl8xyno | 1,637,325,944 | 1,637,325,684 | 62 | 17 | Nice post, it's made me want to sit down and write. What genre is your book? Did you find that your time writing was purely dedicated to the writing process or did you allocate any time to research? | Yes, just write 👍 | 1 | 260 | 3.647059 |
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