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sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtuczl | hxtng6k | 1,645,449,618 | 1,645,445,139 | 58 | 1 | **A** = Your infernal (i.e. internal) editor is too strong. You need to fight it. **B** = Your infernal (i.e. internal) editor has figured out a sneaky way to stop you. You need to fight it. My best advice (and I'm a unremorseful pantser with a bunch of novels finished,) is to read Dean Wesley Smith's "Writing into the Dark," which was the book that let me unleash my pantsing-powers! His tip for B is to keep writing, then, when a really cool idea strikes, you jump back and foreshadow it. So say that your librarian character suddenly whips out a .45 and blows the baddies away. Totally out of character. But you like the scene. It feels right. So you go back in the novel, to some scene where the librarian is just discussing stuff with someone else, and you drop hints. "You know, I was mugged. Thrice. You wouldn't believe how dangerous it is to be a librarian. But no more." Then, after the gun scene, when all the other characters are staring (like the readers should), you just circle back to the stuff you've just planted: "What, I told you being a librarian is dangerous. But they won't take me unawares again." Another thing, that I had a very hard time with at first, is to go back to where the story worked (i.e. it felt great two write and the words flowed) and cut everything after that. I put it in a side file, and keep writing. Quite often, I then realize that a part I've already written fits perfectly and glue it back in. So in the end, I don't write many words I end up cutting (less than 5%) and I can keep writing. Luck and Persistence, from one pantser to another! | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | 1 | 4,479 | 58 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtuczl | hxtsza5 | 1,645,449,618 | 1,645,448,792 | 58 | 1 | **A** = Your infernal (i.e. internal) editor is too strong. You need to fight it. **B** = Your infernal (i.e. internal) editor has figured out a sneaky way to stop you. You need to fight it. My best advice (and I'm a unremorseful pantser with a bunch of novels finished,) is to read Dean Wesley Smith's "Writing into the Dark," which was the book that let me unleash my pantsing-powers! His tip for B is to keep writing, then, when a really cool idea strikes, you jump back and foreshadow it. So say that your librarian character suddenly whips out a .45 and blows the baddies away. Totally out of character. But you like the scene. It feels right. So you go back in the novel, to some scene where the librarian is just discussing stuff with someone else, and you drop hints. "You know, I was mugged. Thrice. You wouldn't believe how dangerous it is to be a librarian. But no more." Then, after the gun scene, when all the other characters are staring (like the readers should), you just circle back to the stuff you've just planted: "What, I told you being a librarian is dangerous. But they won't take me unawares again." Another thing, that I had a very hard time with at first, is to go back to where the story worked (i.e. it felt great two write and the words flowed) and cut everything after that. I put it in a side file, and keep writing. Quite often, I then realize that a part I've already written fits perfectly and glue it back in. So in the end, I don't write many words I end up cutting (less than 5%) and I can keep writing. Luck and Persistence, from one pantser to another! | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | 1 | 826 | 58 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtcb8r | hxtawx0 | 1,645,436,134 | 1,645,434,971 | 22 | 9 | Whatever gets you to a finished first draft is the right way to write the first draft. There is nothing wrong with panting/gardening a whole novel. From my understanding, Stephen King and GRRM both feel like you do to a greater and lesser degree respectively. | I work basically the same way, though tbh I've not finished many novels. For me, there are generally two things that can help with problem B: go back to before I was stuck and try it again, usually writing something different; or write a little stream of consciousness thing about what to do next until I get it. Usually some combination of the two works best. What I find, when stuck, is that usually I've gotten the characters into a situation that they shouldn't be in, based on how the story/characterisation works. | 1 | 1,163 | 2.444444 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtefe5 | hxtg6y7 | 1,645,437,904 | 1,645,439,387 | 6 | 8 | Last year I back to back pantsed two novels. One was a rewrite, so you could argue that I'd already planned it in the previous versions, but the second book (its sequel) I had never written before. I had a rough idea of what was going on and I knew what needed to happen. Six weeks later it was done. 135k all just smashed out. I tried to start book 3 but to be honest I'm tapped. It was thrilling but exhausting to have so little backbone to work off. I'm still resting it, so we'll see how much revision is needed in another two weeks when I print her for an edit :) | Disclaimer: I've only recently noticed this issue with myself and while I have a solution, it hasn't been tested long term yet. Not to mention, this is going to get LONG. So buckle up and make some popcorn cuz we're here for a ride First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It happened to me too and it sucks. Having to reinterpret your writing method walfway through kind of feels like starting over, but now you have pretty high expectations of how it should be; you know how well you can write. So here's what I do know: 1. I often burned out or focused too much on subplots when I pantsed through my story. 2. Plotting is hard when you're used to words just magically appearing on the page 3. This method has turned me into an underwriter, so my editing techniques also changed a lot. Alrighty. With that out of the way, I've summed it down to three kinds of writing days: a) Plotting days: when I don't have the energy to write, but need to do it to not lose the habit. In this case I'll loosely outline the chapters ahead of me - never going too far out. When I'm lucky, outlining just turns into straight up pantsing and I have a new chapter manuscript. b) Worldbuilding days: when I try to plot or write but I'm stuck on research for most of the time I take advantage of it. Just research for hours, answer any and all questions that can pop up and keep a log of them (sum the answer up and then leave the research links underneath just in case). It really speeds up the writing process later and keeps you in the zone further c) Actual Writing days: when the stars align and you know what you have to do and you just write it. Basically, by separating the goal for the day you optimize your work and have some footwork done to make writing easier, while still getting to pants (is this a verb? English is weird) it a bit. Never outlining over four chapters forward leaves room for details you come up with on the spot to be inserted into the story without going through the hassle of replotting the whole novel, and as long as you have the emotional beats to the chapters panned out you can just fix everything in editing. Also, and that's important, I didn't include d)Editing days because I like to edit a couple of months later to have fresh eyes on the story. I write chapters on different documents to see the last date it's been edited just to be sure I'm not that familiar with it and it makes me slightly more open to killing my darlings. Really hope this works out for you the way it did for me. | 0 | 1,483 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtetvb | hxtg6y7 | 1,645,438,246 | 1,645,439,387 | 4 | 8 | The most important thing when you set out to write a novel is to finish that first draft. EVERYTHING else to do with writing is at best a secondary goal to finishing the first draft, including quality. Ever heard the phrase "embrace the shitty first draft"? That's what you need to do, disregard both errors A and B and just write. If you realize while writing that you need to fix something or don't know exactly what to do next, just insert a note with a general idea of what needs to be done and then keep on going. Pants away and fix the problems after you have a completed first draft. | Disclaimer: I've only recently noticed this issue with myself and while I have a solution, it hasn't been tested long term yet. Not to mention, this is going to get LONG. So buckle up and make some popcorn cuz we're here for a ride First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It happened to me too and it sucks. Having to reinterpret your writing method walfway through kind of feels like starting over, but now you have pretty high expectations of how it should be; you know how well you can write. So here's what I do know: 1. I often burned out or focused too much on subplots when I pantsed through my story. 2. Plotting is hard when you're used to words just magically appearing on the page 3. This method has turned me into an underwriter, so my editing techniques also changed a lot. Alrighty. With that out of the way, I've summed it down to three kinds of writing days: a) Plotting days: when I don't have the energy to write, but need to do it to not lose the habit. In this case I'll loosely outline the chapters ahead of me - never going too far out. When I'm lucky, outlining just turns into straight up pantsing and I have a new chapter manuscript. b) Worldbuilding days: when I try to plot or write but I'm stuck on research for most of the time I take advantage of it. Just research for hours, answer any and all questions that can pop up and keep a log of them (sum the answer up and then leave the research links underneath just in case). It really speeds up the writing process later and keeps you in the zone further c) Actual Writing days: when the stars align and you know what you have to do and you just write it. Basically, by separating the goal for the day you optimize your work and have some footwork done to make writing easier, while still getting to pants (is this a verb? English is weird) it a bit. Never outlining over four chapters forward leaves room for details you come up with on the spot to be inserted into the story without going through the hassle of replotting the whole novel, and as long as you have the emotional beats to the chapters panned out you can just fix everything in editing. Also, and that's important, I didn't include d)Editing days because I like to edit a couple of months later to have fresh eyes on the story. I write chapters on different documents to see the last date it's been edited just to be sure I'm not that familiar with it and it makes me slightly more open to killing my darlings. Really hope this works out for you the way it did for me. | 0 | 1,141 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtei85 | hxtg6y7 | 1,645,437,972 | 1,645,439,387 | 3 | 8 | 'Error A' will happen to you no matter what if you're writing a novel. And it's ultimately Error A that seems to be stalling you out, so that's what you need to correct. You need to push yourself to keep going once you hit Error A. Writing is really fun! But sometimes it drags a bit, or you hit a snag and need to pause to work something out, and if you're serious about wanting to be able to write longer works, you need to keep going even once it stops feeling new and fun. Whether you plot or pants your first draft, editing and revision still has to happen afterwards for it to be a functional, 'well-written' novel. Editing and revision is not new, and it's not exciting. It's reading the same words over and over again and making notes and fussing with stuff. It's also something that has to be done, because it makes your work a lot better. And along the way it can get kind of fun, because you get the satisfaction of polishing your work so it's closer to how it feels inside your head. You don't avoid Error A. You work through it. And after a bit, it gets fun again. | Disclaimer: I've only recently noticed this issue with myself and while I have a solution, it hasn't been tested long term yet. Not to mention, this is going to get LONG. So buckle up and make some popcorn cuz we're here for a ride First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It happened to me too and it sucks. Having to reinterpret your writing method walfway through kind of feels like starting over, but now you have pretty high expectations of how it should be; you know how well you can write. So here's what I do know: 1. I often burned out or focused too much on subplots when I pantsed through my story. 2. Plotting is hard when you're used to words just magically appearing on the page 3. This method has turned me into an underwriter, so my editing techniques also changed a lot. Alrighty. With that out of the way, I've summed it down to three kinds of writing days: a) Plotting days: when I don't have the energy to write, but need to do it to not lose the habit. In this case I'll loosely outline the chapters ahead of me - never going too far out. When I'm lucky, outlining just turns into straight up pantsing and I have a new chapter manuscript. b) Worldbuilding days: when I try to plot or write but I'm stuck on research for most of the time I take advantage of it. Just research for hours, answer any and all questions that can pop up and keep a log of them (sum the answer up and then leave the research links underneath just in case). It really speeds up the writing process later and keeps you in the zone further c) Actual Writing days: when the stars align and you know what you have to do and you just write it. Basically, by separating the goal for the day you optimize your work and have some footwork done to make writing easier, while still getting to pants (is this a verb? English is weird) it a bit. Never outlining over four chapters forward leaves room for details you come up with on the spot to be inserted into the story without going through the hassle of replotting the whole novel, and as long as you have the emotional beats to the chapters panned out you can just fix everything in editing. Also, and that's important, I didn't include d)Editing days because I like to edit a couple of months later to have fresh eyes on the story. I write chapters on different documents to see the last date it's been edited just to be sure I'm not that familiar with it and it makes me slightly more open to killing my darlings. Really hope this works out for you the way it did for me. | 0 | 1,415 | 2.666667 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtg3ga | hxtg6y7 | 1,645,439,305 | 1,645,439,387 | 3 | 8 | pants while worldbuilding, dont write your novels, instead, focus on your world building and burn yourself out from there. That's how it works for me tbh, I usually do it in this order- write, get bored, have a stump, edit, put all my attention to world building, then go back to writing. | Disclaimer: I've only recently noticed this issue with myself and while I have a solution, it hasn't been tested long term yet. Not to mention, this is going to get LONG. So buckle up and make some popcorn cuz we're here for a ride First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It happened to me too and it sucks. Having to reinterpret your writing method walfway through kind of feels like starting over, but now you have pretty high expectations of how it should be; you know how well you can write. So here's what I do know: 1. I often burned out or focused too much on subplots when I pantsed through my story. 2. Plotting is hard when you're used to words just magically appearing on the page 3. This method has turned me into an underwriter, so my editing techniques also changed a lot. Alrighty. With that out of the way, I've summed it down to three kinds of writing days: a) Plotting days: when I don't have the energy to write, but need to do it to not lose the habit. In this case I'll loosely outline the chapters ahead of me - never going too far out. When I'm lucky, outlining just turns into straight up pantsing and I have a new chapter manuscript. b) Worldbuilding days: when I try to plot or write but I'm stuck on research for most of the time I take advantage of it. Just research for hours, answer any and all questions that can pop up and keep a log of them (sum the answer up and then leave the research links underneath just in case). It really speeds up the writing process later and keeps you in the zone further c) Actual Writing days: when the stars align and you know what you have to do and you just write it. Basically, by separating the goal for the day you optimize your work and have some footwork done to make writing easier, while still getting to pants (is this a verb? English is weird) it a bit. Never outlining over four chapters forward leaves room for details you come up with on the spot to be inserted into the story without going through the hassle of replotting the whole novel, and as long as you have the emotional beats to the chapters panned out you can just fix everything in editing. Also, and that's important, I didn't include d)Editing days because I like to edit a couple of months later to have fresh eyes on the story. I write chapters on different documents to see the last date it's been edited just to be sure I'm not that familiar with it and it makes me slightly more open to killing my darlings. Really hope this works out for you the way it did for me. | 0 | 82 | 2.666667 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtei85 | hxtstrw | 1,645,437,972 | 1,645,448,699 | 3 | 4 | 'Error A' will happen to you no matter what if you're writing a novel. And it's ultimately Error A that seems to be stalling you out, so that's what you need to correct. You need to push yourself to keep going once you hit Error A. Writing is really fun! But sometimes it drags a bit, or you hit a snag and need to pause to work something out, and if you're serious about wanting to be able to write longer works, you need to keep going even once it stops feeling new and fun. Whether you plot or pants your first draft, editing and revision still has to happen afterwards for it to be a functional, 'well-written' novel. Editing and revision is not new, and it's not exciting. It's reading the same words over and over again and making notes and fussing with stuff. It's also something that has to be done, because it makes your work a lot better. And along the way it can get kind of fun, because you get the satisfaction of polishing your work so it's closer to how it feels inside your head. You don't avoid Error A. You work through it. And after a bit, it gets fun again. | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | 0 | 10,727 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtstrw | hxtg3ga | 1,645,448,699 | 1,645,439,305 | 4 | 3 | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | pants while worldbuilding, dont write your novels, instead, focus on your world building and burn yourself out from there. That's how it works for me tbh, I usually do it in this order- write, get bored, have a stump, edit, put all my attention to world building, then go back to writing. | 1 | 9,394 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxthpca | hxtstrw | 1,645,440,640 | 1,645,448,699 | 2 | 4 | I usually figure out what the major story beats are, and then gently guide the characters to them while letting the actual process of getting there flow naturally. For example, I knew the king was going to secretly be the villain the whole time, but I had never expected him to practically be a paragon hero at the same time, nor that the biggest obstacle in his plans would be his own daughter who adores him and has aspired to follow in his footsteps her entire life. If you don't know what a character would do in a certain situation, just make something up that sounds fun. If you decide later that it doesn't make sense with the character that's slowly been built over time, then go back and change it, or determine a special circumstance that makes that action suddenly make sense. | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | 0 | 8,059 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtk6uc | hxtstrw | 1,645,442,648 | 1,645,448,699 | 2 | 4 | I've only written 3 novels (or rather, 3 manuscripts), but I have the same approach be it an essay, a short story, or a novel. 1. First I think, imagine, research, read. From this, some sort of story or message manifests in my mind. 2. Then I pants the whole thing. Get stuck? Introduce a new character, mcguffin, whatever. Just get to the end whatever that is, probably not where you first thought it'd end. 3. Then I read through the horrible mess I just created. If it's a short story or essay, I'll usually be tempted to edit it into something okish. But, what works best is to delete the whole thing I just wrote (or dumping it in a drawer). 4. Now, write the whole thing again. It'll end up differently, for sure. But, now you know the characters, the world, the story, to a whole new level. At some point you'll veer off into new territory. Perfectly fine. If stuck, just pretend that you're at step 2. Go back to step 3, but make a decision: edit or rewrite either all of it or from some point in the story). If you feel that the whole thing is unsalvagable, i.e. there was nothing there to begin with, go back to step 1. Hopefully, you will find like I often do that some plots or some characters or some aspect of the message is more interesting or important than others. It'll probably take longer than plotting it all, but, plotting kills the joy for me. So pantsing it is. Good luck :) | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | 0 | 6,051 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtmb1d | hxtstrw | 1,645,444,291 | 1,645,448,699 | 2 | 4 | I think I used to be in the same boat as you, OP. I believed I had to plot first in order to write a novel, which then killed the fun of discovering things as I went along and had me abandoning stuff before I was hating the process. If plotting doesn't work for you... just stop plotting. When you hit error B, write our a list of a few scenarios and roll a damn dice. Go with whatever option comes up. You can always change it in a later draft. Pantsers do all of our heavy lifting in edits, and that's fine. Whatever gets you to the finish line is fine. I can't stay motivated if I plot everything out first. I usually have a couple of plot points I know I need to hit before the ending, and that's enough of a roadmap for me, thanks. | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | 0 | 4,408 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtng6k | hxtstrw | 1,645,445,139 | 1,645,448,699 | 1 | 4 | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | > And make it good? One thing you should unburden yourself with is the concept of good and making it so first time. Things probably won’t be good first time, especially with pantsing, but you don’t have to publish as soon as you finish with the first draft, in fact you shouldn’t. You can go back and improve…that’s what editing is for. > plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, “We’ve already written this, this ain’t new or fun”. That’s only an error if you think a book is only plot points. But they aren’t. You haven’t written it already, because part of writing is unpacking it, giving atmosphere to something, making it feel real to the character. A plot point is a bullet point…the actual writing is paragraphs and chapters. > don’t plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, “What would Z do this situation? I don’t know them well enough.” Maybe at that point you should do some planning of the character. But that is very different from planning the outline of the novel tbh. | 0 | 3,560 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtetvb | hxtei85 | 1,645,438,246 | 1,645,437,972 | 4 | 3 | The most important thing when you set out to write a novel is to finish that first draft. EVERYTHING else to do with writing is at best a secondary goal to finishing the first draft, including quality. Ever heard the phrase "embrace the shitty first draft"? That's what you need to do, disregard both errors A and B and just write. If you realize while writing that you need to fix something or don't know exactly what to do next, just insert a note with a general idea of what needs to be done and then keep on going. Pants away and fix the problems after you have a completed first draft. | 'Error A' will happen to you no matter what if you're writing a novel. And it's ultimately Error A that seems to be stalling you out, so that's what you need to correct. You need to push yourself to keep going once you hit Error A. Writing is really fun! But sometimes it drags a bit, or you hit a snag and need to pause to work something out, and if you're serious about wanting to be able to write longer works, you need to keep going even once it stops feeling new and fun. Whether you plot or pants your first draft, editing and revision still has to happen afterwards for it to be a functional, 'well-written' novel. Editing and revision is not new, and it's not exciting. It's reading the same words over and over again and making notes and fussing with stuff. It's also something that has to be done, because it makes your work a lot better. And along the way it can get kind of fun, because you get the satisfaction of polishing your work so it's closer to how it feels inside your head. You don't avoid Error A. You work through it. And after a bit, it gets fun again. | 1 | 274 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtei85 | hxu2gih | 1,645,437,972 | 1,645,453,882 | 3 | 4 | 'Error A' will happen to you no matter what if you're writing a novel. And it's ultimately Error A that seems to be stalling you out, so that's what you need to correct. You need to push yourself to keep going once you hit Error A. Writing is really fun! But sometimes it drags a bit, or you hit a snag and need to pause to work something out, and if you're serious about wanting to be able to write longer works, you need to keep going even once it stops feeling new and fun. Whether you plot or pants your first draft, editing and revision still has to happen afterwards for it to be a functional, 'well-written' novel. Editing and revision is not new, and it's not exciting. It's reading the same words over and over again and making notes and fussing with stuff. It's also something that has to be done, because it makes your work a lot better. And along the way it can get kind of fun, because you get the satisfaction of polishing your work so it's closer to how it feels inside your head. You don't avoid Error A. You work through it. And after a bit, it gets fun again. | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | 0 | 15,910 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu2gih | hxtg3ga | 1,645,453,882 | 1,645,439,305 | 4 | 3 | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | pants while worldbuilding, dont write your novels, instead, focus on your world building and burn yourself out from there. That's how it works for me tbh, I usually do it in this order- write, get bored, have a stump, edit, put all my attention to world building, then go back to writing. | 1 | 14,577 | 1.333333 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu2gih | hxthpca | 1,645,453,882 | 1,645,440,640 | 4 | 2 | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | I usually figure out what the major story beats are, and then gently guide the characters to them while letting the actual process of getting there flow naturally. For example, I knew the king was going to secretly be the villain the whole time, but I had never expected him to practically be a paragon hero at the same time, nor that the biggest obstacle in his plans would be his own daughter who adores him and has aspired to follow in his footsteps her entire life. If you don't know what a character would do in a certain situation, just make something up that sounds fun. If you decide later that it doesn't make sense with the character that's slowly been built over time, then go back and change it, or determine a special circumstance that makes that action suddenly make sense. | 1 | 13,242 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu2gih | hxtk6uc | 1,645,453,882 | 1,645,442,648 | 4 | 2 | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | I've only written 3 novels (or rather, 3 manuscripts), but I have the same approach be it an essay, a short story, or a novel. 1. First I think, imagine, research, read. From this, some sort of story or message manifests in my mind. 2. Then I pants the whole thing. Get stuck? Introduce a new character, mcguffin, whatever. Just get to the end whatever that is, probably not where you first thought it'd end. 3. Then I read through the horrible mess I just created. If it's a short story or essay, I'll usually be tempted to edit it into something okish. But, what works best is to delete the whole thing I just wrote (or dumping it in a drawer). 4. Now, write the whole thing again. It'll end up differently, for sure. But, now you know the characters, the world, the story, to a whole new level. At some point you'll veer off into new territory. Perfectly fine. If stuck, just pretend that you're at step 2. Go back to step 3, but make a decision: edit or rewrite either all of it or from some point in the story). If you feel that the whole thing is unsalvagable, i.e. there was nothing there to begin with, go back to step 1. Hopefully, you will find like I often do that some plots or some characters or some aspect of the message is more interesting or important than others. It'll probably take longer than plotting it all, but, plotting kills the joy for me. So pantsing it is. Good luck :) | 1 | 11,234 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtmb1d | hxu2gih | 1,645,444,291 | 1,645,453,882 | 2 | 4 | I think I used to be in the same boat as you, OP. I believed I had to plot first in order to write a novel, which then killed the fun of discovering things as I went along and had me abandoning stuff before I was hating the process. If plotting doesn't work for you... just stop plotting. When you hit error B, write our a list of a few scenarios and roll a damn dice. Go with whatever option comes up. You can always change it in a later draft. Pantsers do all of our heavy lifting in edits, and that's fine. Whatever gets you to the finish line is fine. I can't stay motivated if I plot everything out first. I usually have a couple of plot points I know I need to hit before the ending, and that's enough of a roadmap for me, thanks. | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | 0 | 9,591 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtng6k | hxu2gih | 1,645,445,139 | 1,645,453,882 | 1 | 4 | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | 0 | 8,743 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu2gih | hxtsza5 | 1,645,453,882 | 1,645,448,792 | 4 | 1 | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | 1 | 5,090 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtv4w4 | hxu2gih | 1,645,450,058 | 1,645,453,882 | 1 | 4 | You could write a collection of shorter stories set in similar situations like World War Z! | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | 0 | 3,824 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu2gih | hxtxr2r | 1,645,453,882 | 1,645,451,495 | 4 | 1 | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | Do it! But know it will require more rewriting. A lot of folks who pants a first draft end up doing a lot of revision to clean up, connect and otherwise whip in to shape the chaos they've created, but that's not a bad thing. Knowing that part is coming will allow you to let go and release your creativity on the front end. Try it, if nothing else you'll learn pants a novel doesn't work for you. | 1 | 2,387 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtzh56 | hxu2gih | 1,645,452,391 | 1,645,453,882 | 1 | 4 | Ultimately you have to know who your characters are, what they desire, and what are their goals for the novel. You then explore what makes them who they are, what drives them forward, and that will determine the plot as they move towards that goal. Along the way, you as an author put obstacles along the way and you figure out how those characters approach those obstacles while trying to achieve their goals. | I have a severe case of ADHD. I love improvising. I improvised 3 novels without outlines, having but a vague idea of where each was heading. That worked, but I ended up with plot holes I had to circle back and fill. Now I'm using the "Snowflake Method" (link below), a nice compromise between pantsing and plodding. It feels organic as pantsing, but like the mechanical outline, it places your big-picture in context, which I like. Sort of the "best of both worlds." Here are the basic steps. * Write a blurb, which highlights the story question you're trying to answer. Stick to the main characters, antagonist, protagonist and one or two main players. * Big picture in mind, write a Plot Summary, adding in more of the supporting cast. * Break the Plot Summary into Chapter Summaries. You'll probably need more characters too. * Break Chapters into Scene Summaries. Add more characters if necessary. * Link: https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ ...HOWEVER... Being a true pantser, my characters and/ or imagination still take me into interesting, unexpected territory. So even with the loose, organic Snowflake structure I veer off-script. Regardless, I like having the big-view in writing. It makes correcting plot-holes easier but doesn't feel like a straight-jacket. | 0 | 1,491 | 4 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxthpca | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,440,640 | 3 | 2 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | I usually figure out what the major story beats are, and then gently guide the characters to them while letting the actual process of getting there flow naturally. For example, I knew the king was going to secretly be the villain the whole time, but I had never expected him to practically be a paragon hero at the same time, nor that the biggest obstacle in his plans would be his own daughter who adores him and has aspired to follow in his footsteps her entire life. If you don't know what a character would do in a certain situation, just make something up that sounds fun. If you decide later that it doesn't make sense with the character that's slowly been built over time, then go back and change it, or determine a special circumstance that makes that action suddenly make sense. | 1 | 16,564 | 1.5 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtk6uc | hxu9slz | 1,645,442,648 | 1,645,457,204 | 2 | 3 | I've only written 3 novels (or rather, 3 manuscripts), but I have the same approach be it an essay, a short story, or a novel. 1. First I think, imagine, research, read. From this, some sort of story or message manifests in my mind. 2. Then I pants the whole thing. Get stuck? Introduce a new character, mcguffin, whatever. Just get to the end whatever that is, probably not where you first thought it'd end. 3. Then I read through the horrible mess I just created. If it's a short story or essay, I'll usually be tempted to edit it into something okish. But, what works best is to delete the whole thing I just wrote (or dumping it in a drawer). 4. Now, write the whole thing again. It'll end up differently, for sure. But, now you know the characters, the world, the story, to a whole new level. At some point you'll veer off into new territory. Perfectly fine. If stuck, just pretend that you're at step 2. Go back to step 3, but make a decision: edit or rewrite either all of it or from some point in the story). If you feel that the whole thing is unsalvagable, i.e. there was nothing there to begin with, go back to step 1. Hopefully, you will find like I often do that some plots or some characters or some aspect of the message is more interesting or important than others. It'll probably take longer than plotting it all, but, plotting kills the joy for me. So pantsing it is. Good luck :) | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 14,556 | 1.5 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtmb1d | hxu9slz | 1,645,444,291 | 1,645,457,204 | 2 | 3 | I think I used to be in the same boat as you, OP. I believed I had to plot first in order to write a novel, which then killed the fun of discovering things as I went along and had me abandoning stuff before I was hating the process. If plotting doesn't work for you... just stop plotting. When you hit error B, write our a list of a few scenarios and roll a damn dice. Go with whatever option comes up. You can always change it in a later draft. Pantsers do all of our heavy lifting in edits, and that's fine. Whatever gets you to the finish line is fine. I can't stay motivated if I plot everything out first. I usually have a couple of plot points I know I need to hit before the ending, and that's enough of a roadmap for me, thanks. | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 12,913 | 1.5 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu42mi | hxu9slz | 1,645,454,649 | 1,645,457,204 | 2 | 3 | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 2,555 | 1.5 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxtng6k | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,445,139 | 3 | 1 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | 1 | 12,065 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxtsza5 | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,448,792 | 3 | 1 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | 1 | 8,412 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtv4w4 | hxu9slz | 1,645,450,058 | 1,645,457,204 | 1 | 3 | You could write a collection of shorter stories set in similar situations like World War Z! | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 7,146 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxtxr2r | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,451,495 | 3 | 1 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | Do it! But know it will require more rewriting. A lot of folks who pants a first draft end up doing a lot of revision to clean up, connect and otherwise whip in to shape the chaos they've created, but that's not a bad thing. Knowing that part is coming will allow you to let go and release your creativity on the front end. Try it, if nothing else you'll learn pants a novel doesn't work for you. | 1 | 5,709 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtzh56 | hxu9slz | 1,645,452,391 | 1,645,457,204 | 1 | 3 | Ultimately you have to know who your characters are, what they desire, and what are their goals for the novel. You then explore what makes them who they are, what drives them forward, and that will determine the plot as they move towards that goal. Along the way, you as an author put obstacles along the way and you figure out how those characters approach those obstacles while trying to achieve their goals. | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 4,813 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxu708x | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,455,977 | 3 | 1 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | I go back and forth, so I use plotting to get me past the parts where I'm stuck. I write the first chapter (ish) with little or no planning, then when I'm not sure what happens next, plot out the next few scenes very basically. Example: Scene 3: Main character gets robbed, chases thief Ends up in thieves clubhouse - v. scary Random (hooded?) person (future mentor character) pulls her out Introduction and lecture from future mentor character "specific quote I want to fit into the lecture somewhere" I'll try to keep 2-5 scenes ahead, so I have enough info to keep me on task when the words are flowing well, but not so much structure that I feel trapped into a particular path or feel like I wasted a bunch of time planning when my characters inevitably decide to do their own thing. One thing I've learned about myself is that I absolutely *cannot* do this before I start writing. I have to have at least the first 2-3 scenes written out before I can start plotting. Otherwise, I feel like I don't know the characters well enough or something, and nothing flows, and I just get totally stuck. | 1 | 1,227 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9slz | hxu88vj | 1,645,457,204 | 1,645,456,531 | 3 | 1 | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | I struggled for a long time to find a way that worked for me. I was a pantser through and through for most of my life, but then I started running into similar problems to what you've said. Its harder to know where you're taking the story and even to keep the voice for me that way. What I started doing was just really broadly sketching the plot on an outline. Only like the major plot points, and then filling in most of the character and setting as I go along. But that sketch at least gives you a scaffolding to build the story around. I don't like plan every scene or anything. I barely even have done outlines for chapters. I did a couple for the last few chapters because they had a lot going on and I needed to keep it straight, but for the most part I just write until I think the chapter is over and then stop. I hope this helps! Everyone has a little different way to do things | 1 | 673 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9d8k | hxu9slz | 1,645,457,019 | 1,645,457,204 | 1 | 3 | Make an outline with maximum ten things on it. That way you have the general flow of the story, but there's no way you can plot an entire novel in ten beats. Then write improvisatorily within that general structure. | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 185 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9jwc | hxu9slz | 1,645,457,098 | 1,645,457,204 | 1 | 3 | You can outline a plot without it being too restrictive, just getting the basics down and then seeing where it goes | I'm not too sure what the issue is or how exactly your errors A and B interrelated, but... > plot too much and get bored Write a less detailed outline. Some writers do extremely detailed outlines, down to the scene, and others just have a high-level three act structure to guide them in a general direction. I personally find the latter essential in a big project, but I rarely get more detailed than that. I'll also drop this in although it's only tangential: the outline should be the outcome of your ideating/scaffolding process, not what you start with. For me that means that I usually have a few scenes written before I have an outline (they don't always make it into the final product at all, or certainly unchanged), because rather than character sheets and lists etc, the way I personally figure out my story elements is through writing them into scenes. > stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because I may be misunderstanding you, but this to me seems like something you gotta power through. Write what you can think of and leave a note to self, skip the scene and move on, there's different ways to do it, but a lot of the time, the only way is through. Putting on my crazy old lady hat for a moment, I find that with all things that take a long time, whether that's writing a novel, running a marathon or existing, sometimes shit just gets hard and all you can do is keep going. Thinking that you could've preempted it with better planning or whatever is sometimes correct, but often a red herring. I too am often wracked with anxiety over my story not making sense, I have gotten better at dealing with it over the years, and not because I figured out a way to plan around it, but because I'm emotionally stronger and equipped with the experience to deal with it when it inevitably comes up. | 0 | 106 | 3 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtng6k | hxu42mi | 1,645,445,139 | 1,645,454,649 | 1 | 2 | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | 0 | 9,510 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtsza5 | hxu42mi | 1,645,448,792 | 1,645,454,649 | 1 | 2 | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | 0 | 5,857 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtv4w4 | hxu42mi | 1,645,450,058 | 1,645,454,649 | 1 | 2 | You could write a collection of shorter stories set in similar situations like World War Z! | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | 0 | 4,591 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtxr2r | hxu42mi | 1,645,451,495 | 1,645,454,649 | 1 | 2 | Do it! But know it will require more rewriting. A lot of folks who pants a first draft end up doing a lot of revision to clean up, connect and otherwise whip in to shape the chaos they've created, but that's not a bad thing. Knowing that part is coming will allow you to let go and release your creativity on the front end. Try it, if nothing else you'll learn pants a novel doesn't work for you. | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | 0 | 3,154 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtzh56 | hxu42mi | 1,645,452,391 | 1,645,454,649 | 1 | 2 | Ultimately you have to know who your characters are, what they desire, and what are their goals for the novel. You then explore what makes them who they are, what drives them forward, and that will determine the plot as they move towards that goal. Along the way, you as an author put obstacles along the way and you figure out how those characters approach those obstacles while trying to achieve their goals. | Here's the hard truth: pantsing just takes more time and work. It sucks, it really sucks if you hate planning like I do, but the more you pants, the more willing you have to be to go back and cut/rewrite entire scenes or even chunks of the novel to make it fit. It seems from your post your problem is you think you have to write something perfectly coherent from the opening to the ending in your first draft. If you're a heavy pantser, that is so unlikely to happen it is basically impossible. Your approach needs to change to accept this. For example, you could try to get to a convincing ending, then go back through, pick out the bits you like and redraft the whole thing filling in the gaps between those bits to make it make sense. As for getting stuck at points, taking a break helps me. I like to work on other projects or go for a long walk, maybe talk it out with writing friends, but you'll need to find out what works for you. If you think you've done everything you can and you still can't see a way forward, you could try backing up to the last place you felt comfortable and try taking it in a different direction. | 0 | 2,258 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtng6k | hxugjjg | 1,645,445,139 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 14,895 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtsza5 | hxugjjg | 1,645,448,792 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 11,242 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxtv4w4 | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,450,058 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | You could write a collection of shorter stories set in similar situations like World War Z! | 1 | 9,976 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtxr2r | hxugjjg | 1,645,451,495 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | Do it! But know it will require more rewriting. A lot of folks who pants a first draft end up doing a lot of revision to clean up, connect and otherwise whip in to shape the chaos they've created, but that's not a bad thing. Knowing that part is coming will allow you to let go and release your creativity on the front end. Try it, if nothing else you'll learn pants a novel doesn't work for you. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 8,539 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtzh56 | hxugjjg | 1,645,452,391 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | Ultimately you have to know who your characters are, what they desire, and what are their goals for the novel. You then explore what makes them who they are, what drives them forward, and that will determine the plot as they move towards that goal. Along the way, you as an author put obstacles along the way and you figure out how those characters approach those obstacles while trying to achieve their goals. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 7,643 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxu708x | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,455,977 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | I go back and forth, so I use plotting to get me past the parts where I'm stuck. I write the first chapter (ish) with little or no planning, then when I'm not sure what happens next, plot out the next few scenes very basically. Example: Scene 3: Main character gets robbed, chases thief Ends up in thieves clubhouse - v. scary Random (hooded?) person (future mentor character) pulls her out Introduction and lecture from future mentor character "specific quote I want to fit into the lecture somewhere" I'll try to keep 2-5 scenes ahead, so I have enough info to keep me on task when the words are flowing well, but not so much structure that I feel trapped into a particular path or feel like I wasted a bunch of time planning when my characters inevitably decide to do their own thing. One thing I've learned about myself is that I absolutely *cannot* do this before I start writing. I have to have at least the first 2-3 scenes written out before I can start plotting. Otherwise, I feel like I don't know the characters well enough or something, and nothing flows, and I just get totally stuck. | 1 | 4,057 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu88vj | hxugjjg | 1,645,456,531 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | I struggled for a long time to find a way that worked for me. I was a pantser through and through for most of my life, but then I started running into similar problems to what you've said. Its harder to know where you're taking the story and even to keep the voice for me that way. What I started doing was just really broadly sketching the plot on an outline. Only like the major plot points, and then filling in most of the character and setting as I go along. But that sketch at least gives you a scaffolding to build the story around. I don't like plan every scene or anything. I barely even have done outlines for chapters. I did a couple for the last few chapters because they had a lot going on and I needed to keep it straight, but for the most part I just write until I think the chapter is over and then stop. I hope this helps! Everyone has a little different way to do things | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 3,503 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxu9d8k | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,457,019 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | Make an outline with maximum ten things on it. That way you have the general flow of the story, but there's no way you can plot an entire novel in ten beats. Then write improvisatorily within that general structure. | 1 | 3,015 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxu9jwc | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,457,098 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | You can outline a plot without it being too restrictive, just getting the basics down and then seeing where it goes | 1 | 2,936 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuaq2h | hxugjjg | 1,645,457,604 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | Charles Dickens pantsed his way through lots of his novels. Which ones? We're not exactly sure, but it certainly seems to be all of them. The novel he never finished because he died in the middle of writing, there are exactly no notes on where he was going with it. And it was a mystery story, so there's lots of fan theories. So it's totally possible. As others have said, write what you want to write right now, and during the editing process it gets rearranged, tweaked, and changed so that it makes sense. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 2,430 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxubk53 | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,457,957 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | I think the worst case scenario here is that you have a full novel with a couple of plot holes. You'll be endlessly circling this fake idea of balance, where there's never going to be any, and the strive will kill the joy of putting it down in the first place. For a first draft - who actually cares if you write something that doesn't make 100 percent sense the second you put it on the paper? The amount of time you spend trying to avoid the trap of thinking about it too much means you're not putting anything on the paper that you can go back and fix, you're trying to get it right the first/second time. Sometimes that's not how it works. | 1 | 2,077 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuc1c1 | hxugjjg | 1,645,458,157 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | I am a pantser too.... and I think knowing the end helps. (Still gonna read through the comments, 'cause having trouble closing my current novel) | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 1,877 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxudkiu | hxugjjg | 1,645,458,798 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | When I think of a story, I look for the starting point, the inciting event, and then I ask myself how I want the story to end. If you know how the story ends, you Can work backward from there and know what everything should be. Regardless, revisions are where you go back and fix errors. In the first draft, just get the story out. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 1,236 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxududj | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,458,913 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | Yeah, I do that too. I do this thing where I do a hogwarts house thingy with all my characters and usually wing it from there. Clothes usually only come into play when there's an action, like, a tunic getting caught on a branch, a cape ripping, blood seeping through the fabric of a sleeve, that stuff. Same for appearance. A sibling might comment on how your MC looks like e.g. their mother, coz hair colour or whatever. Try telling, not stating. So basically, * look for a vague "box" of character traits, that you can categoryze your peeps into. * DO plan the goal and the stakes for the characters in the story. Then look how you could raise the stakes/prevent the goal for tension. * If you want some outward thing happening, like a war the characters aren't actively involved in, WRITE THAT SHIT DOWN. I keep forgetting the stuff that's going on, and end up having to re-write a sequence, because character A shouldn't be able to just walk into a city, that is currently under siege. In other words, vague guideline for behavior, motivation and values, and influence of the setting. Try bulletpoints for these three things, not written sentences, or you'll end up with tons of plot that will not be used. Also, if you think of a plot twist in the middle of the story DO NOT go back and try to integrate the foreshadowing in what you already wrote. Start foreshadowing where you are, if you are certain you really want/need that plottwist. Your writing changes during the writing process, this is normal. But you WILL be able to tell where something was added in hindsight. If this happens to be foreshadowing, it'll stand out, and not be subtle like it's supposed to be. Editing that first draft is never really *fun*, but happy writing anyways. | 1 | 1,121 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuec55 | hxugjjg | 1,645,459,118 | 1,645,460,034 | 1 | 2 | I could write you a whole big thing, but Story Genius by Lisa Cron. It’s not for beginners like others mentioned in this thread, but it’s a game changer. | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | 0 | 916 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxueimc | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,459,193 | 2 | 1 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | GRRM is a discovery writer (which is a pantser). If it's the method that works for you, go for it. I'm a natural pantser. However, I've been writing more mysteries lately, and having some plotting set up is useful. So I'll sketch out the arc and about how long I think it'll be, how many scenes I need to pull off the overall length, and then where the 'tent pole' points are and a couple words about each. It's enough to 'fix' pacing, but still let the story and characters take me where they will. | 1 | 841 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxugjjg | hxug4jr | 1,645,460,034 | 1,645,459,863 | 2 | 0 | I personally think outlining is crucial to writing a novel, for a few reasons. One, is pantsing gets you into plot dead ends easier, and that can be discouraging (and avoided if you outline and see it before you write). The other is it lets you focus in on micro details, instead of macro elements during revision. However, I totally get people are wired different. I pantsed my first two novels, and kept running into issues after drafting. Mostly that I'd write myself into plot holes or dead ends in the maze while writing, or need to rely on lots of convenience or Deus ex Machinas to get through. I was discouraged after drafting my first one, and the second one I did a few revision passes and noticed overwhelming issues, got frustrated. The third book, I decided to outline. I wrote each scene in a summary of a few sentences, and tried to insert as much natural causality as possible. This went well, and I had a long outline with some brief summary, but still plenty of space to stretch my legs while writing. I still ran into roadblocks, but, since I had an outline, I could set that aside and work on the next thing, returning later once I puzzled out a solution. I still did about 11 revision passes, and had serious pacing issues, but the plot was well-sorted, and the outlining let me see stuff that might cause problems before I'd written any words. I'm working on a novel now, 42k words in. This time, I used a method outlined in Story Genius by Lisa Cron and it's going well. It's outlining, but really it's more about connecting with your characters and learning about them before you do anything else, and then finding ways to weave character and plot more organically. Best part is every scrap of what you write ends up being used in the actual book, either as backpocket details to insert of full-blown flashbacks. The book is pretty pretentious at parts, and I almost dismissed it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. The outline I did for this one was just rough bullet points (they have these scene card things they tell you to use but I opted for a simpler outline method) but because I had character info that only had info relevant to the story, and an outline of bullet points, I think my first draft will be in a much better place than the previous book's. Everyone's different, and this book is definitely focused on Western storytelling conventions, but it really clicked with me. Might be worth a try! tl;dr After pantsing two books I am #teamoutline, but prefer the method in the book linked above as there is less wasted writing and helps weave character and plot together. Edit: a letter | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | 1 | 171 | 2,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtng6k | hxwacqk | 1,645,445,139 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | Collaborate with others. It will force you to focus. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 41,267 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtsza5 | hxwacqk | 1,645,448,792 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | You may want to check out this article about how pantsing and plotting compare and this article about a hybrid of the two. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 37,614 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtv4w4 | hxwacqk | 1,645,450,058 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | You could write a collection of shorter stories set in similar situations like World War Z! | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 36,348 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxtxr2r | hxwacqk | 1,645,451,495 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | Do it! But know it will require more rewriting. A lot of folks who pants a first draft end up doing a lot of revision to clean up, connect and otherwise whip in to shape the chaos they've created, but that's not a bad thing. Knowing that part is coming will allow you to let go and release your creativity on the front end. Try it, if nothing else you'll learn pants a novel doesn't work for you. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 34,911 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxtzh56 | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,452,391 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | Ultimately you have to know who your characters are, what they desire, and what are their goals for the novel. You then explore what makes them who they are, what drives them forward, and that will determine the plot as they move towards that goal. Along the way, you as an author put obstacles along the way and you figure out how those characters approach those obstacles while trying to achieve their goals. | 1 | 34,015 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu708x | hxwacqk | 1,645,455,977 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | I go back and forth, so I use plotting to get me past the parts where I'm stuck. I write the first chapter (ish) with little or no planning, then when I'm not sure what happens next, plot out the next few scenes very basically. Example: Scene 3: Main character gets robbed, chases thief Ends up in thieves clubhouse - v. scary Random (hooded?) person (future mentor character) pulls her out Introduction and lecture from future mentor character "specific quote I want to fit into the lecture somewhere" I'll try to keep 2-5 scenes ahead, so I have enough info to keep me on task when the words are flowing well, but not so much structure that I feel trapped into a particular path or feel like I wasted a bunch of time planning when my characters inevitably decide to do their own thing. One thing I've learned about myself is that I absolutely *cannot* do this before I start writing. I have to have at least the first 2-3 scenes written out before I can start plotting. Otherwise, I feel like I don't know the characters well enough or something, and nothing flows, and I just get totally stuck. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 30,429 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu88vj | hxwacqk | 1,645,456,531 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | I struggled for a long time to find a way that worked for me. I was a pantser through and through for most of my life, but then I started running into similar problems to what you've said. Its harder to know where you're taking the story and even to keep the voice for me that way. What I started doing was just really broadly sketching the plot on an outline. Only like the major plot points, and then filling in most of the character and setting as I go along. But that sketch at least gives you a scaffolding to build the story around. I don't like plan every scene or anything. I barely even have done outlines for chapters. I did a couple for the last few chapters because they had a lot going on and I needed to keep it straight, but for the most part I just write until I think the chapter is over and then stop. I hope this helps! Everyone has a little different way to do things | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 29,875 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxu9d8k | hxwacqk | 1,645,457,019 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | Make an outline with maximum ten things on it. That way you have the general flow of the story, but there's no way you can plot an entire novel in ten beats. Then write improvisatorily within that general structure. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 29,387 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxu9jwc | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,457,098 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | You can outline a plot without it being too restrictive, just getting the basics down and then seeing where it goes | 1 | 29,308 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuaq2h | hxwacqk | 1,645,457,604 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | Charles Dickens pantsed his way through lots of his novels. Which ones? We're not exactly sure, but it certainly seems to be all of them. The novel he never finished because he died in the middle of writing, there are exactly no notes on where he was going with it. And it was a mystery story, so there's lots of fan theories. So it's totally possible. As others have said, write what you want to write right now, and during the editing process it gets rearranged, tweaked, and changed so that it makes sense. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 28,802 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxubk53 | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,457,957 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | I think the worst case scenario here is that you have a full novel with a couple of plot holes. You'll be endlessly circling this fake idea of balance, where there's never going to be any, and the strive will kill the joy of putting it down in the first place. For a first draft - who actually cares if you write something that doesn't make 100 percent sense the second you put it on the paper? The amount of time you spend trying to avoid the trap of thinking about it too much means you're not putting anything on the paper that you can go back and fix, you're trying to get it right the first/second time. Sometimes that's not how it works. | 1 | 28,449 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuc1c1 | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,458,157 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | I am a pantser too.... and I think knowing the end helps. (Still gonna read through the comments, 'cause having trouble closing my current novel) | 1 | 28,249 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxudkiu | hxwacqk | 1,645,458,798 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | When I think of a story, I look for the starting point, the inciting event, and then I ask myself how I want the story to end. If you know how the story ends, you Can work backward from there and know what everything should be. Regardless, revisions are where you go back and fix errors. In the first draft, just get the story out. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 27,608 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxududj | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,458,913 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | Yeah, I do that too. I do this thing where I do a hogwarts house thingy with all my characters and usually wing it from there. Clothes usually only come into play when there's an action, like, a tunic getting caught on a branch, a cape ripping, blood seeping through the fabric of a sleeve, that stuff. Same for appearance. A sibling might comment on how your MC looks like e.g. their mother, coz hair colour or whatever. Try telling, not stating. So basically, * look for a vague "box" of character traits, that you can categoryze your peeps into. * DO plan the goal and the stakes for the characters in the story. Then look how you could raise the stakes/prevent the goal for tension. * If you want some outward thing happening, like a war the characters aren't actively involved in, WRITE THAT SHIT DOWN. I keep forgetting the stuff that's going on, and end up having to re-write a sequence, because character A shouldn't be able to just walk into a city, that is currently under siege. In other words, vague guideline for behavior, motivation and values, and influence of the setting. Try bulletpoints for these three things, not written sentences, or you'll end up with tons of plot that will not be used. Also, if you think of a plot twist in the middle of the story DO NOT go back and try to integrate the foreshadowing in what you already wrote. Start foreshadowing where you are, if you are certain you really want/need that plottwist. Your writing changes during the writing process, this is normal. But you WILL be able to tell where something was added in hindsight. If this happens to be foreshadowing, it'll stand out, and not be subtle like it's supposed to be. Editing that first draft is never really *fun*, but happy writing anyways. | 1 | 27,493 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuec55 | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,459,118 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | I could write you a whole big thing, but Story Genius by Lisa Cron. It’s not for beginners like others mentioned in this thread, but it’s a game changer. | 1 | 27,288 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxueimc | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,459,193 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | GRRM is a discovery writer (which is a pantser). If it's the method that works for you, go for it. I'm a natural pantser. However, I've been writing more mysteries lately, and having some plotting set up is useful. So I'll sketch out the arc and about how long I think it'll be, how many scenes I need to pull off the overall length, and then where the 'tent pole' points are and a couple words about each. It's enough to 'fix' pacing, but still let the story and characters take me where they will. | 1 | 27,213 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxug4jr | hxwacqk | 1,645,459,863 | 1,645,486,406 | 0 | 2 | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 26,543 | 2,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuhzud | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,460,621 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | I'm finding that I work best when I pants everything and fix it later. I'll even write an entire scene knowing that I'll probably trash it later, but it gets something on the page to work with. And sometimes it turns out I don't trash it, I just repurpose it for a different section, or steal a big chunk of the dialog, or whatever. Sometimes plotting ahead can be a good way to get started if I'm really stuck, but I hardly ever end up using the plan I make. | 1 | 25,785 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuo13e | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,463,012 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | You could pull back on plotting and just have a few points you’re aiming at: —big reconciliation between A and her brother —nifty fight scene after C tries to steal the MacGuffin —A and C get fake married near the end, discover they can’t stand each other And then leave it at that and trust that when you get to that point you’ll have either pantsed it well or will have found A Better Idea. | 1 | 23,394 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxur42l | hxwacqk | 1,645,464,236 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | The more you learn about story structure and what you like stories to do and what you're capable of, the more you can wing it successfully. For me I like to know the nature of the ending g before I start. Then everything I write can be guided under either "what will make the ending more awesome when it happens" or "what gets me closer to the ending?" I think most famous "pantser" authors have trouble with their endings and this approach helps mitigate that and instead turn it into a strength. | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 22,170 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuxeqk | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,466,672 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | What I've found works best for me is to work out where things are going to start, where I want them to finish, and a few major plot beats that'll happen somewhere in between. From there, I workshop the shit out of my characters. Get in-depth about who they are, what they like or dislike, etc. This way I can more easily make consistent and believable decisions when writing them without a concrete outline. Basically I sit down with a list of questions, answer them, and write a little bio of things that would have happened prior to the events of the story. Kinda like making a D&D character, but without the stats. Third, I make notes of plot beats I've set up but have not yet resolved while I'm writing. This way, I can go about writing organically without a super concrete outline but also avoid leaving an idea hanging. Ultimately though, you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Try all sorts of things, the stuff that works will stick. | 1 | 19,734 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuxvs2 | hxwacqk | 1,645,466,857 | 1,645,486,406 | 1 | 2 | Save The Cat is great but pretty in-depth, and I get the feeling you want something more accessible to help you get SOME structure, enough to give you confidence you're heading in the right direction, but not too much to stifle your usual way of working. Has anyone else mentioned \~Libbie Hawker's Take off your pants? She's got much shorter way of blocking in your story and the book itself is pretty short and sweet. BTW, I used to be the same as you, and it was a painful grind constantly revising and rewriting huge chunks. I had one book where the 2nd half was just a load of people running round a tower killing each other! The next book I write, I'm using Take Off your Pants/Save the Cat for sure!!! Good luck and keep going! | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | 0 | 19,549 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxwacqk | hxuy4kt | 1,645,486,406 | 1,645,466,952 | 2 | 1 | I'm a discovery writer/pantser. The way I handle A is by writing a high-level outline to ensure I'm hitting the major beats so that I actually have a story. As an example, one of the outline entries for my last novel was "the ship sinks." To write that, I had to have the whole lead-in, the actual sinking of the ship, then the aftermath. All of that took close to three chapters. So, I knew that big event was going to happen. But since it was only one point in my outline, I didn't feel like I'd already written it. I was still able to discovery write (or pants) the whole event. I can't help you so much with B and accurate characterizations though, because I'd say characters are why I'm a discovery writer/pantser. I let the characters drive the story more than anything else. What's driving your pantsing of story if not the characters and their motivations? | There is a lot of wisdom to "write in whatever way works for you," but yeah, if your goal is to finish a whole novel and your instincts are screaming at you that maybe pantsing isn't the way to go, that might be an impulse you want to listen to! There are quite a few good books out there aimed at helping writers develop structure. I've found Take Off Your Pants helpful in the past. I've also read Save the Cat Writes a Novel and it was interesting and thought-provoking (though I didn't end up adopting that method myself, but it did get me thinking in some new directions that I found useful.) I've seen people talk quite a bit about the Snowflake Method, but I only tried it half-heartedly once myself... it wasn't my cup of tea, but it might be yours! Give it a shot and see if it speaks to you. In short, try out some books that will guide you through the process of developing a story structure. One or more of them is bound to click with you! | 1 | 19,454 | 2 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxug4jr | hxuhzud | 1,645,459,863 | 1,645,460,621 | 0 | 1 | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | I'm finding that I work best when I pants everything and fix it later. I'll even write an entire scene knowing that I'll probably trash it later, but it gets something on the page to work with. And sometimes it turns out I don't trash it, I just repurpose it for a different section, or steal a big chunk of the dialog, or whatever. Sometimes plotting ahead can be a good way to get started if I'm really stuck, but I hardly ever end up using the plan I make. | 0 | 758 | 1,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxug4jr | hxuo13e | 1,645,459,863 | 1,645,463,012 | 0 | 1 | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | You could pull back on plotting and just have a few points you’re aiming at: —big reconciliation between A and her brother —nifty fight scene after C tries to steal the MacGuffin —A and C get fake married near the end, discover they can’t stand each other And then leave it at that and trust that when you get to that point you’ll have either pantsed it well or will have found A Better Idea. | 0 | 3,149 | 1,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxur42l | hxug4jr | 1,645,464,236 | 1,645,459,863 | 1 | 0 | The more you learn about story structure and what you like stories to do and what you're capable of, the more you can wing it successfully. For me I like to know the nature of the ending g before I start. Then everything I write can be guided under either "what will make the ending more awesome when it happens" or "what gets me closer to the ending?" I think most famous "pantser" authors have trouble with their endings and this approach helps mitigate that and instead turn it into a strength. | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | 1 | 4,373 | 1,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuxeqk | hxug4jr | 1,645,466,672 | 1,645,459,863 | 1 | 0 | What I've found works best for me is to work out where things are going to start, where I want them to finish, and a few major plot beats that'll happen somewhere in between. From there, I workshop the shit out of my characters. Get in-depth about who they are, what they like or dislike, etc. This way I can more easily make consistent and believable decisions when writing them without a concrete outline. Basically I sit down with a list of questions, answer them, and write a little bio of things that would have happened prior to the events of the story. Kinda like making a D&D character, but without the stats. Third, I make notes of plot beats I've set up but have not yet resolved while I'm writing. This way, I can go about writing organically without a super concrete outline but also avoid leaving an idea hanging. Ultimately though, you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Try all sorts of things, the stuff that works will stick. | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | 1 | 6,809 | 1,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuxvs2 | hxug4jr | 1,645,466,857 | 1,645,459,863 | 1 | 0 | Save The Cat is great but pretty in-depth, and I get the feeling you want something more accessible to help you get SOME structure, enough to give you confidence you're heading in the right direction, but not too much to stifle your usual way of working. Has anyone else mentioned \~Libbie Hawker's Take off your pants? She's got much shorter way of blocking in your story and the book itself is pretty short and sweet. BTW, I used to be the same as you, and it was a painful grind constantly revising and rewriting huge chunks. I had one book where the 2nd half was just a load of people running round a tower killing each other! The next book I write, I'm using Take Off your Pants/Save the Cat for sure!!! Good luck and keep going! | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | 1 | 6,994 | 1,000 | ||
sxp3pg | writing_train | 0.92 | I write more and, arguably, write BETTER when I know as LITTLE about the plot / characters / story as possible (ie pantsing), but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of pantsing an entire fcking novel...? Does anyone have *any* advice. I've built my writing abilities around pantsing, unfortunately, and since I've been doing that since *ten*, I'm not sure how to break it. And, admittedly, I don't think I want to break it, as it works well for me, it feels good, and I'm comfortable with it. Yet, at the same time, I know I probably *should* break it. Because they always say, "write in whatever way works best for you" and I am, yeah, but how am I supposed to pants an entire novel? And make it *good?* I automatically plan and plot things when I'm excited about it, and I've planned and outlined characters and plots *dozens* of times with them garnering nothing in return, all because I either... A) plot too much and get bored, my brain telling me, "We've already written this, this ain't new or fun". B) don't plot / plan enough, stumping myself (usually) on accurate characterization or not knowing how to move forward because, "What would Z do this situation? I don't know them well enough." However, if I fix error B, I ultimately fucking end up circling back to error A. I'm screwed regardless of what I do, in my mind. So, does anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's obvious and I'm an idiot, but still, humor me. What should I do about this? Rather, what *can* I do to fix error B, *without* stumbling into error A, all whilst keeping my writing style of mainly pantsing so that writing is at least a semblance of fun for me and not all-grind, no-reward? | hxuy4kt | hxug4jr | 1,645,466,952 | 1,645,459,863 | 1 | 0 | There is a lot of wisdom to "write in whatever way works for you," but yeah, if your goal is to finish a whole novel and your instincts are screaming at you that maybe pantsing isn't the way to go, that might be an impulse you want to listen to! There are quite a few good books out there aimed at helping writers develop structure. I've found Take Off Your Pants helpful in the past. I've also read Save the Cat Writes a Novel and it was interesting and thought-provoking (though I didn't end up adopting that method myself, but it did get me thinking in some new directions that I found useful.) I've seen people talk quite a bit about the Snowflake Method, but I only tried it half-heartedly once myself... it wasn't my cup of tea, but it might be yours! Give it a shot and see if it speaks to you. In short, try out some books that will guide you through the process of developing a story structure. One or more of them is bound to click with you! | Literature is made with words, not ideas. Don't get sucked in the narration vacuum. Ever since the modernist revolution, the text is no longer moving toward anything. Prose is being written as poetry. As Propp observed in his analysis of the folktale, the narratives always have A evolving towards B, creating conflict, secreting meaning from this abrasion. But after the Great War, these elements have lost its sacrosanct value. Look at Beckett's *How it is* or Blanchot's *The Step Not Beyond* or Claude Mauriac's *The Marquise Went out at Five* or Claude Ollier's *Mise-en-scene* or any other French New Novel. There is no story there! There is no longer somewhere to go, where the text could lead you. It's gone! All that remains are words! As Barthes put it, you can only write the writerly, that is, the scriptible text, the text that cannot be read, because if it could, you would no longer with writing it, but instead just lay back and read it altogether! Check out Roland Barthes' *Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Narratives*. It might help you stop losing sleep over what we call the plot. | 1 | 7,089 | 1,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | epusl8c | 1,559,510,982 | 1,559,515,300 | 0 | 6 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | You're right, you won't be good at writing. You haven't got the experience. You only get that experience by writing a lot for years on end. On average, your first four complete novels will be garbage. Embrace the suck. There's no other way forward. | 0 | 4,318 | 6,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuz50n | epv4gjx | 1,559,519,969 | 1,559,523,936 | 1 | 3 | #OnWritingByStephenKing | A little bit of fear is not a bad thing. Eventually, you must set it aside and begin. The trick isn't to accept that you will be a terrible writer. You have to be arrogant and narcissistic enough to believe that whatever it is that you have in mind is the next best thing. You have to be stubborn and strong enough to endure rejection. Write whatever you want. There are no rules. | 0 | 3,967 | 3 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | epv4gjx | 1,559,510,982 | 1,559,523,936 | 0 | 3 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | A little bit of fear is not a bad thing. Eventually, you must set it aside and begin. The trick isn't to accept that you will be a terrible writer. You have to be arrogant and narcissistic enough to believe that whatever it is that you have in mind is the next best thing. You have to be stubborn and strong enough to endure rejection. Write whatever you want. There are no rules. | 0 | 12,954 | 3,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epvlbes | epuz50n | 1,559,538,519 | 1,559,519,969 | 2 | 1 | Work on your characters. If it's a bucket list is someone sick or dying? Is the girl acting out because she has a bad relationship with her parents? Make a list of all the the possible conflicts could be, think about how they would work in your story and pick one. Also, it's ok to just start writing. If you don't have a conflict then just start going and when you rewrite it you can add in the conflict. | #OnWritingByStephenKing | 1 | 18,550 | 2 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epv4wwp | epvlbes | 1,559,524,262 | 1,559,538,519 | 1 | 2 | One of the best ways to come up with conflict is to work through a character's flaw. What is your main character afraid of/unable to do? If it's a bucket list type thing, maybe she has always been too scared to live and that's why she's deciding to go on a bucket list adventure now. In this case, maybe Ashton could help your main character figure out what her number one bucket list thing is (could be going across the country to see something or some daring physical thing like climbing a mountain that she'd have to train for). This could be something she has always been too afraid to do but now, with the help of her friends, they help her train/travel to do this thing. Then you can have some bumps in the road along the way, but she's working towards a major goal. Or it could be the opposite. Maybe she's too daring and will go to extremes to fulfill dares and prove herself. And maybe that makes her sort of selfish. So maybe her big bucket list item is actually visiting an ill family member or something that isn't as daring or adventurous as the things she normally does, but takes more emotional strength for her to do. And it's something she has been avoiding, therefore it's her flaw. Also, oftentimes there are two types of character goals. A want and a need. A want is what the character THINKS their goal is (so if she's too afraid to be daring maybe her want is to just enjoy quiet time with her friends. Or if she's too daring then her want could be to live a colorful, exciting life). And the need is what they discover they REALLY want. It's the opposite of the want. (So if she's too afraid, her need would be to get out and explore. And if she's too daring, her need could be realizing how valuable the mundane friendships/relationships around her are). The goal and main plot of the story challenges the main character to work towards their need, forcing them to step out of their comfort zone and do the opposite of the want, even though they fail at it at first. Whatever you decide, I definitely, definitely, definitely recommend Jessica Brody's "Save the Cat Writes a Novel" book. It's perfect for plotting and a fun and easy read, even if you choose to just skip to the chapters on plot. Basically, you start with your normal world. Then there's the inciting incident (which would be her doing the dare and falling in the pool). Then some sort of call to action (probably where they decide what the big, goal-driving bucket list thing is going to be). Then a debate (where the main character says she couldn't possibly do this because she's too \[insert flaw i.e. scared, doesn't care enough, whatever her flaw is\]. Then something drives her to accept it. Then we see her and her friends working towards this goal with some bumps (either it goes smoothly or it goes horribly) until they reach a midpoint about halfway through the book (some sort of twist- new information, a new obstacle, a new villain- which raises the stakes, makes everything harder. Maybe they'll have to alter their goal a bit or just work even harder) then, with the raised stakes, they continue to push towards the goal and if things were going well before, they go poorly now, or vice versa. This all leads to an All is Lost moment where the main character messes everything up (because of her flaw) and the goal seems lost, the friends have abandoned her. She has a "Long Dark Night of the Soul" bit where she sulks around alone and reflects and realizes what her problem is and decides to fix it (maybe with the help of a mentor). Then in Act 3, she sets out stronger than ever to gather her friends and push towards the real goal (whether this is the same goal as before or a new and improved goal that she has discovered was what she REALLY needed to do all along is up to you!) Anyway, that's just the Save the Cat formula but I think it works super well, especially if you're having trouble coming up with plot. It's nice to be able to fit it into a formula sometimes, so at least you feel like you have the major points tied down. Then you can have fun filling it in along the way. I think if you like writing and are passionate about your story, then your readers will like it and be passionate about it too. Try not to think too much about if it's good or not- just enjoy writing it as much as you can! Best of luck! | Work on your characters. If it's a bucket list is someone sick or dying? Is the girl acting out because she has a bad relationship with her parents? Make a list of all the the possible conflicts could be, think about how they would work in your story and pick one. Also, it's ok to just start writing. If you don't have a conflict then just start going and when you rewrite it you can add in the conflict. | 0 | 14,257 | 2 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | epvlbes | 1,559,510,982 | 1,559,538,519 | 0 | 2 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | Work on your characters. If it's a bucket list is someone sick or dying? Is the girl acting out because she has a bad relationship with her parents? Make a list of all the the possible conflicts could be, think about how they would work in your story and pick one. Also, it's ok to just start writing. If you don't have a conflict then just start going and when you rewrite it you can add in the conflict. | 0 | 27,537 | 2,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | epuz50n | 1,559,510,982 | 1,559,519,969 | 0 | 1 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | #OnWritingByStephenKing | 0 | 8,987 | 1,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epv4wwp | epuk7uk | 1,559,524,262 | 1,559,510,982 | 1 | 0 | One of the best ways to come up with conflict is to work through a character's flaw. What is your main character afraid of/unable to do? If it's a bucket list type thing, maybe she has always been too scared to live and that's why she's deciding to go on a bucket list adventure now. In this case, maybe Ashton could help your main character figure out what her number one bucket list thing is (could be going across the country to see something or some daring physical thing like climbing a mountain that she'd have to train for). This could be something she has always been too afraid to do but now, with the help of her friends, they help her train/travel to do this thing. Then you can have some bumps in the road along the way, but she's working towards a major goal. Or it could be the opposite. Maybe she's too daring and will go to extremes to fulfill dares and prove herself. And maybe that makes her sort of selfish. So maybe her big bucket list item is actually visiting an ill family member or something that isn't as daring or adventurous as the things she normally does, but takes more emotional strength for her to do. And it's something she has been avoiding, therefore it's her flaw. Also, oftentimes there are two types of character goals. A want and a need. A want is what the character THINKS their goal is (so if she's too afraid to be daring maybe her want is to just enjoy quiet time with her friends. Or if she's too daring then her want could be to live a colorful, exciting life). And the need is what they discover they REALLY want. It's the opposite of the want. (So if she's too afraid, her need would be to get out and explore. And if she's too daring, her need could be realizing how valuable the mundane friendships/relationships around her are). The goal and main plot of the story challenges the main character to work towards their need, forcing them to step out of their comfort zone and do the opposite of the want, even though they fail at it at first. Whatever you decide, I definitely, definitely, definitely recommend Jessica Brody's "Save the Cat Writes a Novel" book. It's perfect for plotting and a fun and easy read, even if you choose to just skip to the chapters on plot. Basically, you start with your normal world. Then there's the inciting incident (which would be her doing the dare and falling in the pool). Then some sort of call to action (probably where they decide what the big, goal-driving bucket list thing is going to be). Then a debate (where the main character says she couldn't possibly do this because she's too \[insert flaw i.e. scared, doesn't care enough, whatever her flaw is\]. Then something drives her to accept it. Then we see her and her friends working towards this goal with some bumps (either it goes smoothly or it goes horribly) until they reach a midpoint about halfway through the book (some sort of twist- new information, a new obstacle, a new villain- which raises the stakes, makes everything harder. Maybe they'll have to alter their goal a bit or just work even harder) then, with the raised stakes, they continue to push towards the goal and if things were going well before, they go poorly now, or vice versa. This all leads to an All is Lost moment where the main character messes everything up (because of her flaw) and the goal seems lost, the friends have abandoned her. She has a "Long Dark Night of the Soul" bit where she sulks around alone and reflects and realizes what her problem is and decides to fix it (maybe with the help of a mentor). Then in Act 3, she sets out stronger than ever to gather her friends and push towards the real goal (whether this is the same goal as before or a new and improved goal that she has discovered was what she REALLY needed to do all along is up to you!) Anyway, that's just the Save the Cat formula but I think it works super well, especially if you're having trouble coming up with plot. It's nice to be able to fit it into a formula sometimes, so at least you feel like you have the major points tied down. Then you can have fun filling it in along the way. I think if you like writing and are passionate about your story, then your readers will like it and be passionate about it too. Try not to think too much about if it's good or not- just enjoy writing it as much as you can! Best of luck! | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | 1 | 13,280 | 1,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epw24ye | epuk7uk | 1,559,562,980 | 1,559,510,982 | 1 | 0 | It sounds like you have your premise pretty solid in your mind. Why not start writing and see where the characters take you? Oftentimes as you write, the story takes on a life of its own. And I find in the process of writing that the plot points or characters giving me trouble during the planning phase fall into place, or at least get out of my head where I can manipulate them in later drafts. Since this is your first try at writing, you'll probably end up rewriting the whole thing at some point. So I would suggest just jumping right in and seeing where you end up. I've gotten stuck in planning before trying to figure out a plot detail and sometimes the best remedy for that is to get started for real. | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | 1 | 51,998 | 1,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | epx5zwv | 1,559,510,982 | 1,559,592,846 | 0 | 1 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | You have to try. Create a basic outline and try to build your world, cast, settings, trials and obstacles | 0 | 81,864 | 1,000 | ||
bw1yw9 | writing_train | 0.74 | Im kinda stuck in the plotting phase of a book and im afraid i wont be good at writing Its and adventure/coming of age/possible romance story following a bucket list type adventure. It follows a young girl who has a seemingly good life but somethings missing. One night her friends dare her to sneak into the neighbors house and whilst climbing over a wall to get into the yard she loses her footing and falls into the pool. The neighbor ashton is sitting in a chair reading when he sees her in the pool. They get along quick and he joins their friend group. I just need to know why they go on this "adventure" to finish the bucket list type thing. Im a fairly new writer and have never written a novel. I cant seem to find a driving force or conflict for it, should i give up? | epuk7uk | f3hdwng | 1,559,510,982 | 1,570,922,312 | 0 | 1 | Take some water out of the pool. Can fast forward the relationship if she needs help getting out of the pool and some first aid/ice for bump. A hurt elbow could be good. Maybe make the guy scared of going outside. Her cries for help force him into making a breakthrough. Also why the pool is nearly empty, he doesn't use it. Then he could revert back to being scared when she's not with him. | maybe it's her 18th birthday or something and she wants to do something daring so they play a highschool cliche truth or dare and she regrets it but she does it anyway or something hahah idk | 0 | 11,411,330 | 1,000 | ||
zef490 | writing_train | 0.83 | I’m not confident in my writing I’m not necessarily new to writing, i’ve always loved writing and admired the art so much but I was never encouraged to keep writing so I never made a habit of it and never exactly improved. I feel like everything I write is off, the words don’t FLOW like I want them to. It all feels forced. It’s really disheartening when I do deeply love writing and literature but I don’t know how long more I can go on writing a few sentences, feeling like it’s going nowhere and then feeling deeply insecure and giving up. Anyone else have a similar experience? Any advice? | iz642n0 | iz68jlh | 1,670,354,860 | 1,670,356,561 | 6 | 11 | I sympathize! I think that is common in writers, since we are doing everything on our own. You have to be the creator and the critic. Your ratio just seems out of wack at the moment. Try switching hats, and be thankful you have the presence of mind to be able to critique your work!! If you were unable to do that, your writing would go no where. :) | My dad, who was a teacher his whole life, said the method for learning a skill is theory - practice - reflection, over and over until the skill is mastered. Take any one of these steps away, and the learning process is hobbled. No theory means you'll just practice what you already know, no practice and you'll just reflect on theory that doesn't include your current skill, and no reflection means you'll never figure out what theory you need to study next. Figure out where you're currently at, and what you need to do to progress, if it's more theory, more practice, or more reflection. If I were to hazard a guess, you need to reflect and find out what's next to learn. and then practice. | 0 | 1,701 | 1.833333 |
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